smh
You can correctly give Newey his dues without having to reframe any argument at all surrounding this in some heavily skewed way to support it.
As legendary as Newey is, it's not impossible for others to do as well or better than him on occasion.
smh
CaribouBread wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 15:12He's talking big game again, that's worked out pretty well for him these few years.
George is regularly seeing the walls under pressure, mercedes needs to find a team leader for 2025Sofa King wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 17:05Lewis is already regularly seeing the back of George’s rear wing — if he is lucky — so nothing new here
CaribouBread wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 15:12He's talking big game again, that's worked out pretty well for him these few years.
Ferrari was cheating? Oh come on now, let's stay grounded in reality please. Merc tried to nerf the front two, it ended up only hurting Ferrari because Merc don't understand these regulations.Mosin123 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 21:33Ferrari was 100 % going againts the very spirit of the rules, it wasnt a shock it was swiftly changed, they was practically cheating.
McLaren last year didnt even finished top 15 first two races after swapping to Redbulls suspension, but finished the last half of the season with the clear 2nd best car. AM had started the season with the clear 2nd fastest car, yet finished 4th.
Im not one for picking the best of the rest after the first 3 races of a 24 race season, even more so, when it went to the very last race the year before.
A lot of people conflate the TD039 changes with floor flexing, but I believe it was the bouncing that killed them. They had bouncing that was beyond the new limits introduced, but it seemed the drivers were able to live with it at the time.SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 17:29Ferrari was cheating? Oh come on now, let's stay grounded in reality please. Merc tried to nerf the front two, it ended up only hurting Ferrari because Merc don't understand these regulations.Mosin123 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 21:33Ferrari was 100 % going againts the very spirit of the rules, it wasnt a shock it was swiftly changed, they was practically cheating.
McLaren last year didnt even finished top 15 first two races after swapping to Redbulls suspension, but finished the last half of the season with the clear 2nd best car. AM had started the season with the clear 2nd fastest car, yet finished 4th.
Im not one for picking the best of the rest after the first 3 races of a 24 race season, even more so, when it went to the very last race the year before.
They were a dream team as long as the music was playing, now when the music has stopped, masks have fell... Now we will have to wait who comes out of this victorious.Sofa King wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 17:05Lewis is already regularly seeing the back of George’s rear wing — if he is lucky — so nothing new here
CaribouBread wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 15:12He's talking big game again, that's worked out pretty well for him these few years.
Something like that. Peak downforce is usually achieved at the lowest ride height (now that there's basically no rake when cars are running), 0 yaw, 0 roll, no steering angle. Basically running on the straight. But corners aren't straights and neither are kerbs, bumps and any other running condition - and all of those mean a certain loss compared to peak downforce.maygun wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 14:03Thanks for your answer, but still I don't have a clear understanding of what do you mean by peak downforce.
What I understood from peak-downforce is that, imagining a plot where on x axis I have speed (and other variables maybe like ride height, yaw conditions, temp etc), y axis is the downforce, and the maximum point of the graph (related to x axis) is the peak (the max value) and the area under the curve is available downforce. Imagining in a lap, peak value is where the maximum downforce I am obtaining during the lap, and the available downforce is the value I get on average during the lap. (you can change the lap variable with ride height, temp etc.)
So you are suggesting that they have optimised the peak value instead of the area under the curve? This sounds like a very-very foolish way to optimise performance if they did that.
I didnt say they was, i said they practically was, they was in a gray area that was quickly shut.SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 17:29Ferrari was cheating? Oh come on now, let's stay grounded in reality please. Merc tried to nerf the front two, it ended up only hurting Ferrari because Merc don't understand these regulations.Mosin123 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 21:33Ferrari was 100 % going againts the very spirit of the rules, it wasnt a shock it was swiftly changed, they was practically cheating.
McLaren last year didnt even finished top 15 first two races after swapping to Redbulls suspension, but finished the last half of the season with the clear 2nd best car. AM had started the season with the clear 2nd fastest car, yet finished 4th.
Im not one for picking the best of the rest after the first 3 races of a 24 race season, even more so, when it went to the very last race the year before.
A flexing floor would generate quite a bit of free downforce, not only that, but it help obsorb some of that impact from the bouncing, and also allow the car to be run lower. The change in regulations hit Ferrari the most, because they was gaining the most from it.SiLo wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 17:44A lot of people conflate the TD039 changes with floor flexing, but I believe it was the bouncing that killed them. They had bouncing that was beyond the new limits introduced, but it seemed the drivers were able to live with it at the time.SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 17:29Ferrari was cheating? Oh come on now, let's stay grounded in reality please. Merc tried to nerf the front two, it ended up only hurting Ferrari because Merc don't understand these regulations.Mosin123 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 21:33Ferrari was 100 % going againts the very spirit of the rules, it wasnt a shock it was swiftly changed, they was practically cheating.
McLaren last year didnt even finished top 15 first two races after swapping to Redbulls suspension, but finished the last half of the season with the clear 2nd best car. AM had started the season with the clear 2nd fastest car, yet finished 4th.
Im not one for picking the best of the rest after the first 3 races of a 24 race season, even more so, when it went to the very last race the year before.
No, but its harder to catch some one who already has exp in f1 racing with ground effects, and 3 years at indycar, he has known since then how to solve the bouncing problem, then spent hundreds of millions researching it for the Rb001, Even Neway him self says his exp with ground effects gave him in a very advantageous understanding of the rules.
I will take a stab at answering, but at a very crude level.maygun wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 14:03
Thanks for your answer, but still I don't have a clear understanding of what do you mean by peak downforce.
What I understood from peak-downforce is that, imagining a plot where on x axis I have speed (and other variables maybe like ride height, yaw conditions, temp etc), y axis is the downforce, and the maximum point of the graph (related to x axis) is the peak (the max value) and the area under the curve is available downforce. Imagining in a lap, peak value is where the maximum downforce I am obtaining during the lap, and the available downforce is the value I get on average during the lap. (you can change the lap variable with ride height, temp etc.)
So you are suggesting that they have optimised the peak value instead of the area under the curve? This sounds like a very-very foolish way to optimise performance if they did that.
He probably means when Ferrari are coming from behind to lap MercedesSofa King wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 17:05Lewis is already regularly seeing the back of George’s rear wing — if he is lucky — so nothing new here
CaribouBread wrote: ↑27 Mar 2024, 15:12He's talking big game again, that's worked out pretty well for him these few years.
I think they actually lost their way before '22, and had some element missing in their understanding without knowing it. In '21, with the cutouts in the floor, the initially lost ground to Red Bull. At the end of '21 they arguably had the fastest car again, with hardly any updates. So they seemed to have something missing in the understanding /simulation of their car and the setup already then.Toto wrote: “I think we’ve lost our way at the beginning of ’22 because all our tools and systems [previously] gave us cars that were winning championships every single year,”