Christian Horner under Investigation

[Mosin123]

The idea that a PA can hire an expensive PR agency with an average white collar job salary is the primary point. A job that gets paid lower than the engineers and mechanics with serious skill sets, is some how acceptable.

Again, you're belittling the work of an Executive PA. That role itself has a serious skill set. No-one is suggesting she's on millions, or that she isn't getting help from somewhere else paying for the PR firm. I would put good money on her being on at least as much as some of the better paid engineers.

There is nothing like belittling. The employment ecosystem has a structure of remuneration, based on skillsets, qualifications, specializations required and the availability of these combinations of skill sets for a job and the criticality of the job itself. The critical the job function, the higher the remuneration would be. The higher the supply of such candidates, the lower the remunerations gets. In such a framework (not my opinion), a Personal Assistant's job is not regarded as a highly skilled job like that of a specialized engineer. PA function usually gets categorized into Miscellaneous job functions, not into specialization departments like Science or Engineering where roles like Data Scientists, Research Analysts, Aero Engineers or Performance Analysts belong to. That's the point.

Here is a simple search on LinkedIn for PA job postings in UK. Look through this and get the average, real time salary offering.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

For a reference, here is the job search link for Mechanical Engineer. You can compare the skill sets and salary offerings. (There are a few open positions in Red Bull racing and McLaren in that search! )

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

a PA for a some one as well known as Horner wouldnt be on the "average wage ", its not a normal PA job, working for the rich and famous brings its own inflated fee.

https://www.findcelebrityjobs.com/ultra ... -year.html

[PapayaFan481]

The idea that a PA can hire an expensive PR agency with an average white collar job salary is the primary point. A job that gets paid lower than the engineers and mechanics with serious skill sets, is some how acceptable.

Again, you're belittling the work of an Executive PA. That role itself has a serious skill set. No-one is suggesting she's on millions, or that she isn't getting help from somewhere else paying for the PR firm. I would put good money on her being on at least as much as some of the better paid engineers.

There is nothing like belittling. The employment ecosystem has a structure of remuneration, based on skillsets, qualifications, specializations required and the availability of these combinations of skill sets for a job and the criticality of the job itself. The critical the job function, the higher the remuneration would be. The higher the supply of such candidates, the lower the remunerations gets. In such a framework (not my opinion), a Personal Assistant's job is not regarded as a highly skilled job like that of a specialized engineer. PA function usually gets categorized into Miscellaneous job functions, not into specialization departments like Science or Engineering where roles like Data Scientists, Research Analysts, Aero Engineers or Performance Analysts belong to. That's the point.

Here is a simple search on LinkedIn for PA job postings in UK. Look through this and get the average, real time salary offering.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

For a reference, here is the job search link for Mechanical Engineer. You can compare the skill sets and salary offerings. (There are a few open positions in Red Bull racing and McLaren in that search! )

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

Once again..... Never mind. You point out that people with highly specialised job functions get remunerated better, but then assume that the Executive PA for a CEO of the top F1 team doesn't need to have a specific set of skills and that any average PA, such as would be listed on Indeed, could do it.

I might as well list a job advert for Kwik-Fit as an argument for how much a mechanic in an F1 team gets paid

[Dunlay]

Again, you're belittling the work of an Executive PA. That role itself has a serious skill set. No-one is suggesting she's on millions, or that she isn't getting help from somewhere else paying for the PR firm. I would put good money on her being on at least as much as some of the better paid engineers.

There is nothing like belittling. The employment ecosystem has a structure of remuneration, based on skillsets, qualifications, specializations required and the availability of these combinations of skill sets for a job and the criticality of the job itself. The critical the job function, the higher the remuneration would be. The higher the supply of such candidates, the lower the remunerations gets. In such a framework (not my opinion), a Personal Assistant's job is not regarded as a highly skilled job like that of a specialized engineer. PA function usually gets categorized into Miscellaneous job functions, not into specialization departments like Science or Engineering where roles like Data Scientists, Research Analysts, Aero Engineers or Performance Analysts belong to. That's the point.

Here is a simple search on LinkedIn for PA job postings in UK. Look through this and get the average, real time salary offering.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

For a reference, here is the job search link for Mechanical Engineer. You can compare the skill sets and salary offerings. (There are a few open positions in Red Bull racing and McLaren in that search! )

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

Once again..... Never mind. You point out that people with highly specialised job functions get remunerated better, but then assume that the Executive PA for a CEO of the top F1 team doesn't need to have a specific set of skills and that any average PA, such as would be listed on Indeed, could do it.

I might as well list a job advert for Kwik-Fit as an argument for how much a mechanic in an F1 team gets paid

If you can help with your distinction of how different a PA for an F1 CEO is different from PAs for CEOs that are also globe trotters in other industries, that would help. I definitely don't think it changes much in either skill sets, job functions or demands of the job.

[Dunlay]

Again, you're belittling the work of an Executive PA. That role itself has a serious skill set. No-one is suggesting she's on millions, or that she isn't getting help from somewhere else paying for the PR firm. I would put good money on her being on at least as much as some of the better paid engineers.

There is nothing like belittling. The employment ecosystem has a structure of remuneration, based on skillsets, qualifications, specializations required and the availability of these combinations of skill sets for a job and the criticality of the job itself. The critical the job function, the higher the remuneration would be. The higher the supply of such candidates, the lower the remunerations gets. In such a framework (not my opinion), a Personal Assistant's job is not regarded as a highly skilled job like that of a specialized engineer. PA function usually gets categorized into Miscellaneous job functions, not into specialization departments like Science or Engineering where roles like Data Scientists, Research Analysts, Aero Engineers or Performance Analysts belong to. That's the point.

Here is a simple search on LinkedIn for PA job postings in UK. Look through this and get the average, real time salary offering.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

For a reference, here is the job search link for Mechanical Engineer. You can compare the skill sets and salary offerings. (There are a few open positions in Red Bull racing and McLaren in that search! )

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

a PA for a some one as well known as Horner wouldnt be on the "average wage ", its not a normal PA job, working for the rich and famous brings its own inflated fee.

https://www.findcelebrityjobs.com/ultra ... -year.html

Being a PA to multi billionaire business owner is different from being a PA to a CEO of one of that billionaire's companies. Don't you think? A PA to the late Dietrich Mateschitz or Lawrence Stroll or Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg etc., getting that kind of pay is understandable, but someone working for Horner getting it? Horner himself earns a lot less salary than most of the midfield drivers.

[Mosin123]

There is nothing like belittling. The employment ecosystem has a structure of remuneration, based on skillsets, qualifications, specializations required and the availability of these combinations of skill sets for a job and the criticality of the job itself. The critical the job function, the higher the remuneration would be. The higher the supply of such candidates, the lower the remunerations gets. In such a framework (not my opinion), a Personal Assistant's job is not regarded as a highly skilled job like that of a specialized engineer. PA function usually gets categorized into Miscellaneous job functions, not into specialization departments like Science or Engineering where roles like Data Scientists, Research Analysts, Aero Engineers or Performance Analysts belong to. That's the point.

Here is a simple search on LinkedIn for PA job postings in UK. Look through this and get the average, real time salary offering.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

For a reference, here is the job search link for Mechanical Engineer. You can compare the skill sets and salary offerings. (There are a few open positions in Red Bull racing and McLaren in that search! )

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

a PA for a some one as well known as Horner wouldnt be on the "average wage ", its not a normal PA job, working for the rich and famous brings its own inflated fee.

https://www.findcelebrityjobs.com/ultra ... -year.html

Being a PA to multi billionaire business owner is different from being a PA to a CEO of one of that billionaire's companies. Don't you think? A PA to the late Dietrich Mateschitz or Lawrence Stroll or Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg etc., getting that kind of pay is understandable, but someone working for Horner getting it? Horner himself earns a lot less salary than most of the midfield drivers.

Right, so you think a PA ( Executive assistant ) to a multi billion pound company CEO that has the ability to handle millions in company bank accounts, millions in assests, handle the life of a world famous celebrity, who will have access to his home, his bank, every thing........ is being paid 30 k, like that PA to the warehouse floor manager who works 9 - 5 and handles coffee and takes messages and the dry cleaning up? Or the deputy head masters PA at the school...

Ok.

[chrisc90]

Yeah, she would have been on strong money. Not your average UK wage that’s for sure.

[myurr]

Being a PA to multi billionaire business owner is different from being a PA to a CEO of one of that billionaire's companies. Don't you think? A PA to the late Dietrich Mateschitz or Lawrence Stroll or Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg etc., getting that kind of pay is understandable, but someone working for Horner getting it? Horner himself earns a lot less salary than most of the midfield drivers.

Anecdotally I know of one highly rated PA in the healthcare industry who is on a 6 figure salary. She's valued both for her organisational skills, but also for the initiative she shows in simply dealing with problems that shouldn't take the CEO's time, whilst being a trusted adviser.

Obviously at the other end of the spectrum you can have a junior PA making coffee and earning peanuts.

It really depends where on that spectrum the victim lies, although from the text messages, being available all hours of the day, travelling extensively, whilst clearly also being a confidant of Horner I would suspect she's earning well above average.

[myurr]

Some more personal commentary about the victim and how she's being treated have been published by the BBC: https://www.statista.com/statistics/137 ... d%20Japan.

It would appear she's signed a confidentiality agreement with Red Bull, which explains her radio silence, one would presume as part of her employment with the team at a senior level.

Whatever the eventual outcome it seems clear she's in this for the long haul and that the truth will eventually come out.

[Wouter]

BBC: Christian Horner complainant is 'upset, scared and lonely', says family friend

Very long article worth reading. Some quotes:
.

The woman who complained about Red Bull team principal Christian Horner's behaviour is "very upset, angry, scared, intimidated and lonely", a family friend has told BBC Sport.

The woman lodged a complaint in December that contained allegations of coercive, abusive behaviour and sexual harassment by Horner.

She "struggles to understand" how Red Bull dismissed the complaint following an investigation, the friend added.

Horner has always denied the claims.

Red Bull dismissed the complaint on 28 February after an internal investigation and cleared Horner, 50, of any wrongdoing.

Until now, the complaint has been described as one of inappropriate and controlling behaviour. Red Bull said they could not confirm it also included allegations of sexual harassment, but BBC Sport has seen evidence to that effect.

The woman is unable to talk about her claims, having signed a legal undertaking not to discuss the matter with anyone other than her father and brother, the friend said.

"It's impossible for people to understand what it's like for her," said the friend, who was talking to BBC Sport exclusively and on condition of anonymity. "She can't talk and she won't talk.

"But I can tell you what it is doing to her. Every time I have asked her something, she breaks down in tears and says she's got no-one to talk to because she's not allowed to talk.

"She is very upset, very angry, very scared, very intimidated, very lonely. And I think it's impossible for people to understand without being in her shoes what it's like for her."

A Red Bull spokesperson said: "Both [parties] signed a confidentiality agreement on it so they both can't discuss it."

However, the friend claimed the messages were a genuine exchange between Horner and the complainant.
The friend said: "We can all read the WhatsApps and anybody can come to their own conclusion whether that was an appropriate relationship between a CEO and a PA.

"As Christian has said, he wants to draw a line under this. Well, if this has been a fair and independent process and there has been no wrongdoing found, then why isn't that being brought forward in a transparent way and why isn't Christian denying that those WhatsApps are real?

"I do feel like you had some people who feel it takes two to tango, but that's unfair. That is trying to divert. The issue here is, should Christian have done what he did as a CEO?"

Red Bull have said they cannot comment further on the report and its findings because of confidentiality issues regarding employment law.

"She struggles to understand how, given the information, an independent process can have come to the conclusions it has, and the actions that have followed," her friend said.

"It's shocking but not surprising how upset she is. There have been multiple financial offers [to sell her story], none of which she has had any interest in even engaging on.

"The fact she can't talk to her friends, is only allowed to talk to her direct family members… you have a single female who has followed the right process and feels like she is unheard and it has been a totally unjust process.

"It takes a pretty brave woman to do what she has done. And unfortunately it is a very poor state of affairs."

The complainant has appealed against Red Bull's decision and has made F1's governing body the FIA aware of the situation and asked it to investigate.

The friend added: "It is registered to go to an employment tribunal, which is public. As a friend, I can tell you I would assume that Horner, like he has done every step of the way, will do everything he can to make sure that the employee tribunal is not public.

"Unfortunately, the date is a long time away. She has been threatened with legalese every step of the way, as has the media.

"She has now been suspended and it's clear that's Red Bull following a process to eventually fire her."

A Red Bull spokesperson said: "Christian has not made attempts to [make sure the employment tribunal is private]. And she has not been suspended with the intent of firing her."

.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/68712864

[PapayaFan481]

There is nothing like belittling. The employment ecosystem has a structure of remuneration, based on skillsets, qualifications, specializations required and the availability of these combinations of skill sets for a job and the criticality of the job itself. The critical the job function, the higher the remuneration would be. The higher the supply of such candidates, the lower the remunerations gets. In such a framework (not my opinion), a Personal Assistant's job is not regarded as a highly skilled job like that of a specialized engineer. PA function usually gets categorized into Miscellaneous job functions, not into specialization departments like Science or Engineering where roles like Data Scientists, Research Analysts, Aero Engineers or Performance Analysts belong to. That's the point.

Here is a simple search on LinkedIn for PA job postings in UK. Look through this and get the average, real time salary offering.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

For a reference, here is the job search link for Mechanical Engineer. You can compare the skill sets and salary offerings. (There are a few open positions in Red Bull racing and McLaren in that search! )

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?c ... fresh=true

a PA for a some one as well known as Horner wouldnt be on the "average wage ", its not a normal PA job, working for the rich and famous brings its own inflated fee.

https://www.findcelebrityjobs.com/ultra ... -year.html

Being a PA to multi billionaire business owner is different from being a PA to a CEO of one of that billionaire's companies. Don't you think? A PA to the late Dietrich Mateschitz or Lawrence Stroll or Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg etc., getting that kind of pay is understandable, but someone working for Horner getting it? Horner himself earns a lot less salary than most of the midfield drivers.

Horner earns less than a midfield driver?? Really?? You have evidence for that?? Newey was reported to earn more than most drivers, but you think Horner is on less??

You're right that Horner's Executive PA will be on less than some of the examples you listed. But they will be on significantly more than the PA to the CEO of a small company. It's a spectrum, not night and day.

One thing you can be sure of though, the jobs for this sort of role are not on Indeed. You don't apply for that sort of role, you get headhunted.

[PapayaFan481]

Being a PA to multi billionaire business owner is different from being a PA to a CEO of one of that billionaire's companies. Don't you think? A PA to the late Dietrich Mateschitz or Lawrence Stroll or Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg etc., getting that kind of pay is understandable, but someone working for Horner getting it? Horner himself earns a lot less salary than most of the midfield drivers.

Anecdotally I know of one highly rated PA in the healthcare industry who is on a 6 figure salary. She's valued both for her organisational skills, but also for the initiative she shows in simply dealing with problems that shouldn't take the CEO's time, whilst being a trusted adviser.

Obviously at the other end of the spectrum you can have a junior PA making coffee and earning peanuts.

It really depends where on that spectrum the victim lies, although from the text messages, being available all hours of the day, travelling extensively, whilst clearly also being a confidant of Horner I would suspect she's earning well above average.

Precisely. Again anecdotal, but the PA to the Chief Executive at the last private company I worked for was definitely on more than the top Sales guys and drove a Mercedes E Class company car.

[chrisc90]

It certainly does take 2 to tango, and she played that game aswell. ‘Diversion tactic’ or not, she plays an equal role on the ‘blame’.


If she has signed a confidentiality agreement about, she knows that RB can and will sue her for considerably more than what she would be able to sell her story for to any media.

I mean, trusting that RB have correctly followed the employment law to the letter regarding the matter, then she should be accepting this whether her complaint was successful or not.

From what has happened, it seems that RB have followed the procedures to the letter.

Her grief really needs to be with the person(s) who leaked it. Unless it was herself and that is what RB have dismissed her for. Which I guess if she was using a company provided phone - they have every right to take it back and see what messages were sent to whom regarding the screenshots. As they could have only originated from one device.

[Wouter]

It certainly does take 2 to tango, and she played that game aswell. ‘Diversion tactic’ or not,

she plays an equal role on the ‘blame’.

.
Could you please explane that to me? Thanks in advance.

[chrisc90]

It certainly does take 2 to tango, and she played that game aswell. ‘Diversion tactic’ or not,

she plays an equal role on the ‘blame’.

.
Could you please explane that to me? Thanks in advance.

Well, providing that everything that has been ‘leaked’ and said is true, then she was also in on things.

Those messages certainly did not fully read from one direction only.
It was:
Horner <- -> PA

Not a case of either:

Horner - -> PA
PA - -> Horner

[Wouter]

It certainly does take 2 to tango, and she played that game aswell. ‘Diversion tactic’ or not,

she plays an equal role on the ‘blame’.

.
Could you please explane that to me? Thanks in advance.

.
Well, providing that everything that has been ‘leaked’ and said is true, then she was also in on things.

Those messages certainly did not fully read from one direction only.
It was:
Horner <- -> PA

Not a case of either:

Horner - -> PA
PA - -> Horner

.
As far as I have read the texts, Horner kept asking her for something and she refused. Then I'm talking about Horner's flirt behavior.
I didn't see her flirting anywhere. Do you? Because you say that they are both "to blame for that (flirting/being guilty)".