2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

So i think Leclerc will be back in Maranello this week to analyze the issue with the outlap. Hopefully he will find whatever he is doing wrong in order to arrive more prepared for Suzuka.

For Red Bull's sake, I really hope he goes to Suzuka instead of Shanghai next week...

[Xyz22]

So i think Leclerc will be back in Maranello this week to analyze the issue with the outlap. Hopefully he will find whatever he is doing wrong in order to arrive more prepared for Suzuka.

For Red Bull's sake, I really hope he goes to Suzuka instead of Shanghai next week...

Lmao. In any event i doubt RB will have troubles winning the race.

[CaribouBread]

...

Has to be a style preference at this point. And if it was a detriment for lap times or car performance, him and his engineers would've ironed this trait out gradually. Just one of those quirks I guess.
What's surprising is he manages to nurse his tyres well even with this extra load he applies deliberately. I'd assume this would be bad for the tyres but apparently not.

[CRazyLemon]

Next season, 6 names will transfer from Mercedes to Ferrari. The agreement between the teams has been completed."

Are we still excited by all these signings? 2022 great car, 2023 poor car. 2024 pretty good car. Now we're signing people from a team that has had 3 poor cars in a row. Maybe if it was RBR staff it would be more impactful.

I guess what I'm saying is it seems the Ferrari design team is actually pretty good as it stands. If the Imola upgrade works, then there's quite good momentum in that team as it is.

[Vanja #66]

Compared to pole position and the race winner, only Ferrari drivers reduced the Q gap per lap in the race, even Leclerc with suboptimal strategy and getting ridiculously slowed down early in the 1st stint...



Perez got close in Q, but was still on average slower by extra 2 tenths in the race. If Max wasn't cruising in the final stint, I think everyone would have been at least 1 tenth further away. Max and Ferraris had the perfect balance between Q and R setups, that much is clear.

Russell seemed a bit slow in Q and it showed in the race, while Hamilton lost quite a lot of time in the race on various occasions. Still Mercedes, McLaren and AMR were heavily compromised in the race compared to Q and they obviously benefitted greatly from colder Q session.

Summer's coming and Ferrari has nothing to fear

[Sphere3758]

In retrospect, Charles shouldn't have fought the Checo move that hard. The mistake at Degna 2 cost him 3 seconds, he said tyres felt totally fine before that and would have come back into the window.

Is this from a specific interview?

Anyway, it's a bit weird. Imola '22, Singapore '22, Japan '22, Las Vegas '23, Japan '24. He always has these incidents of going off the track chased by Perez specifically. Imola was the other way around, but you get the point.

Leclerc has been hassled by many other drivers before and has been relatively stable, but there's always something going on when Perez is there. It's odd.

Singapore?

The tyres were still good, but Norris would have closed the gap fast behind, as he was 0.4ish s per lap quicker, so he would have gotten in undercut range in 2-3 laps. They also made the right call pitting him after the mistake, so he kept the track position on Norris.

The last stint was just over managed, agreed. It's easy to see the pattern looking at lap times. Just too conservative.

Regarding the last stint, it becomes more clear when listening to the team radio. They were really unsure on the hard tyre lasting the distance as all the usual references (Mercedes/McLaren) were not great on them in their earlier stints. Redbull had not put on the hards yet, so was unknown.

It was conservative, but I would not really blame them for it. Charles would have battled more with Sainz for P3, but it would make no difference to team points.

They need to update their references now. On four different tracks, they have had the best tire wear alongside Redbull. They other references dont matter for the moment.

[Andres125sx]

Congratulations to Sainz for another podium!

Like all GPs he participated this season, impressive

Good race by Leclerc too, it's a shame he failed on qualifying too, repeating Australia mistake. Not what we expect from someone considered one of the best qualifiers

Impressive tire management from Ferrari, day and night compared to past season!

[LetHimTrough]

Is there any relation between Ferrari Rear Suspension and Haas also being one of the best cars in the grid on its tyres?

Did Ferrari find something that other teams are missing? Both teams went from bottom of the grid in Tyre management to 2 of the best (Magnussen and Leclerc, I believe, were the 2 only ones pulling a 1 stop race for example).

[Xyz22]

Is there any relation between Ferrari Rear Suspension and Haas also being one of the best cars in the grid on its tyres?

Did Ferrari find something that other teams are missing? Both teams went from bottom of the grid in Tyre management to 2 of the best (Magnussen and Leclerc, I believe, were the 2 only ones pulling a 1 stop race for example).

This is more about aero than suspension, at least that is what Cardile have been saying since last year.

[LetHimTrough]

Is there any relation between Ferrari Rear Suspension and Haas also being one of the best cars in the grid on its tyres?

Did Ferrari find something that other teams are missing? Both teams went from bottom of the grid in Tyre management to 2 of the best (Magnussen and Leclerc, I believe, were the 2 only ones pulling a 1 stop race for example).

This is more about aero than suspension, at least that is what Cardile have been saying since last year.

But it is only the "rear-end" they share, Am I correct?

[Xyz22]

Is there any relation between Ferrari Rear Suspension and Haas also being one of the best cars in the grid on its tyres?

Did Ferrari find something that other teams are missing? Both teams went from bottom of the grid in Tyre management to 2 of the best (Magnussen and Leclerc, I believe, were the 2 only ones pulling a 1 stop race for example).

This is more about aero than suspension, at least that is what Cardile have been saying since last year.

But it is only the "rear-end" they share, Am I correct?

Every piece that is allowed by the FIA to be shared IIRC

[Vanja #66]

Is there any relation between Ferrari Rear Suspension and Haas also being one of the best cars in the grid on its tyres?

Did Ferrari find something that other teams are missing? Both teams went from bottom of the grid in Tyre management to 2 of the best (Magnussen and Leclerc, I believe, were the 2 only ones pulling a 1 stop race for example).

Ferrari and Haas share both front and rear suspension since Haas entered F1. Suspension was redesigned around different targets for 2024 and it clearly shows. In 2022 Ferrari had some issues on Hards from time to time, in 2023 they had big issues with Hards every time they raced - pace drop was stunning. There is no such thing anymore, so they clearly worked a lot on better handling of tyres by design. It was clearly made at the expense of Q pace, but it's the same thing for Red Bull and Max in particular - points are won in the Race (and Sprint ). I posted about tyre treatment yesterday

Somewhere around this time last year I started to look at RB and Ferrari deg from a tyre operation point of view, but there were so many things wrong with SF23 so I didn't bother discussing it as there wasn't any consistent data. Even the end of season performance skewed things so much. However after a very different start this year, and especially with Hass' 2024 results and race pace, I am now 99% certain there's something inherent to tyre treatment depending on how you design the suspension, and not just pure setup and driving style.

This is a bit simplistic diagram of X tyre compound behaviour regarding grip and deg as a function of tyre temp. I've asked some people who know more of that matter and was told it's simplistic but overall trends are accurate - there's a temp sweet-spot for optimal grip and in general the hotter the tyre the more it will degrade. In 2023, I think this is a fairly accurate state of tyre treatment:



I believe it was almost the same for RB in 2022 and Ferrari was more to the left but not as much as RB. In any case, this situation would have left Ferrari with very narrow performance window and dropping out of it would mean either huge deg or unexpectedly poor cornering performance. Last year we saw both things happen during races. At the same time, it would be incredibly easy to keep the car at the peak of performance in Q and this was also the case last year. This year I think we have something like this:



Basically, Ferrari moved their window to where RB was last 2 years and RB moved more towards peak performance this year, but nowhere near SF-23 levels. Seeing how things went today, I can't imagine Max would have been able to repeat the brutal one-stop performance of Miami 2023. I'd even say this might be almost complete reversal of early 2022 tyre treatment, since even then RB was realistically closer in the race than they were on Q pace.

All in all I don't think there's much difference between these two approaches. Arguably, trading a bit of peak grip for better deg is always better for the race since it allows you to push without fear of sudden massive drop-off - exhibit A: Australia race and differences between Sainz' and Leclerc's 3rd stint. It also gives far more resistance on temperature variations between Q and race and during the race. On the other hand, if you get the pole and are able to run in clear air you can also control the race so it's not a bad approach.

What would be the best of both worlds? Setting the car up for the race and having enough downforce to still put the car on pole. From everything Vasseur and Cardille said so far - they are happy with how they handle the tyres and won't compromise it for outright performance, they will add performance through downforce alone and these are the 3-4 tenths they always mention. After so many pointless pole positions last year, this really is the right way to the top for Ferrari.

[FDD]

Is there any relation between Ferrari Rear Suspension and Haas also being one of the best cars in the grid on its tyres?

Did Ferrari find something that other teams are missing? Both teams went from bottom of the grid in Tyre management to 2 of the best (Magnussen and Leclerc, I believe, were the 2 only ones pulling a 1 stop race for example).

Ferrari and Haas share both front and rear suspension since Haas entered F1. Suspension was redesigned around different targets for 2024 and it clearly shows. In 2022 Ferrari had some issues on Hards from time to time, in 2023 they had big issues with Hards every time they raced - pace drop was stunning. There is no such thing anymore, so they clearly worked a lot on better handling of tyres by design. It was clearly made at the expense of Q pace, but it's the same thing for Red Bull and Max in particular - points are won in the Race (and Sprint ). I posted about tyre treatment yesterday

Somewhere around this time last year I started to look at RB and Ferrari deg from a tyre operation point of view, but there were so many things wrong with SF23 so I didn't bother discussing it as there wasn't any consistent data. Even the end of season performance skewed things so much. However after a very different start this year, and especially with Hass' 2024 results and race pace, I am now 99% certain there's something inherent to tyre treatment depending on how you design the suspension, and not just pure setup and driving style.

This is a bit simplistic diagram of X tyre compound behaviour regarding grip and deg as a function of tyre temp. I've asked some people who know more of that matter and was told it's simplistic but overall trends are accurate - there's a temp sweet-spot for optimal grip and in general the hotter the tyre the more it will degrade. In 2023, I think this is a fairly accurate state of tyre treatment:

https://i.ibb.co/JvMq0Wd/Tyre-Temp-Temp ... g-2023.jpg

I believe it was almost the same for RB in 2022 and Ferrari was more to the left but not as much as RB. In any case, this situation would have left Ferrari with very narrow performance window and dropping out of it would mean either huge deg or unexpectedly poor cornering performance. Last year we saw both things happen during races. At the same time, it would be incredibly easy to keep the car at the peak of performance in Q and this was also the case last year. This year I think we have something like this:

https://i.ibb.co/2WZWKhd/Tyre-Temp-Temp ... g-2024.jpg

Basically, Ferrari moved their window to where RB was last 2 years and RB moved more towards peak performance this year, but nowhere near SF-23 levels. Seeing how things went today, I can't imagine Max would have been able to repeat the brutal one-stop performance of Miami 2023. I'd even say this might be almost complete reversal of early 2022 tyre treatment, since even then RB was realistically closer in the race than they were on Q pace.

All in all I don't think there's much difference between these two approaches. Arguably, trading a bit of peak grip for better deg is always better for the race since it allows you to push without fear of sudden massive drop-off - exhibit A: Australia race and differences between Sainz' and Leclerc's 3rd stint. It also gives far more resistance on temperature variations between Q and race and during the race. On the other hand, if you get the pole and are able to run in clear air you can also control the race so it's not a bad approach.

What would be the best of both worlds? Setting the car up for the race and having enough downforce to still put the car on pole. From everything Vasseur and Cardille said so far - they are happy with how they handle the tyres and won't compromise it for outright performance, they will add performance through downforce alone and these are the 3-4 tenths they always mention. After so many pointless pole positions last year, this really is the right way to the top for Ferrari.

Simple, excellent explanation to get to the point

[ing.]

Next season, 6 names will transfer from Mercedes to Ferrari. The agreement between the teams has been completed."

Are we still excited by all these signings? 2022 great car, 2023 poor car. 2024 pretty good car. Now we're signing people from a team that has had 3 poor cars in a row. Maybe if it was RBR staff it would be more impactful.

I guess what I'm saying is it seems the Ferrari design team is actually pretty good as it stands. If the Imola upgrade works, then there's quite good momentum in that team as it is.

I also don’t understand the Merc signings—including their French tire guru, and also HAM, frankly—especially as they have not only designed three duds but also still don’t understand what makes them duds. Can’t be a good feeling, or vote of confidence, for current Ferrari staff to have these people helicoptered in. Maybe too much change is just too much, with diminishing returns… or even negative returns.

[LetHimTrough]

Is there any relation between Ferrari Rear Suspension and Haas also being one of the best cars in the grid on its tyres?

Did Ferrari find something that other teams are missing? Both teams went from bottom of the grid in Tyre management to 2 of the best (Magnussen and Leclerc, I believe, were the 2 only ones pulling a 1 stop race for example).

Ferrari and Haas share both front and rear suspension since Haas entered F1. Suspension was redesigned around different targets for 2024 and it clearly shows. In 2022 Ferrari had some issues on Hards from time to time, in 2023 they had big issues with Hards every time they raced - pace drop was stunning. There is no such thing anymore, so they clearly worked a lot on better handling of tyres by design. It was clearly made at the expense of Q pace, but it's the same thing for Red Bull and Max in particular - points are won in the Race (and Sprint ). I posted about tyre treatment yesterday

Somewhere around this time last year I started to look at RB and Ferrari deg from a tyre operation point of view, but there were so many things wrong with SF23 so I didn't bother discussing it as there wasn't any consistent data. Even the end of season performance skewed things so much. However after a very different start this year, and especially with Hass' 2024 results and race pace, I am now 99% certain there's something inherent to tyre treatment depending on how you design the suspension, and not just pure setup and driving style.

This is a bit simplistic diagram of X tyre compound behaviour regarding grip and deg as a function of tyre temp. I've asked some people who know more of that matter and was told it's simplistic but overall trends are accurate - there's a temp sweet-spot for optimal grip and in general the hotter the tyre the more it will degrade. In 2023, I think this is a fairly accurate state of tyre treatment:

https://i.ibb.co/JvMq0Wd/Tyre-Temp-Temp ... g-2023.jpg

I believe it was almost the same for RB in 2022 and Ferrari was more to the left but not as much as RB. In any case, this situation would have left Ferrari with very narrow performance window and dropping out of it would mean either huge deg or unexpectedly poor cornering performance. Last year we saw both things happen during races. At the same time, it would be incredibly easy to keep the car at the peak of performance in Q and this was also the case last year. This year I think we have something like this:

https://i.ibb.co/2WZWKhd/Tyre-Temp-Temp ... g-2024.jpg

Basically, Ferrari moved their window to where RB was last 2 years and RB moved more towards peak performance this year, but nowhere near SF-23 levels. Seeing how things went today, I can't imagine Max would have been able to repeat the brutal one-stop performance of Miami 2023. I'd even say this might be almost complete reversal of early 2022 tyre treatment, since even then RB was realistically closer in the race than they were on Q pace.

All in all I don't think there's much difference between these two approaches. Arguably, trading a bit of peak grip for better deg is always better for the race since it allows you to push without fear of sudden massive drop-off - exhibit A: Australia race and differences between Sainz' and Leclerc's 3rd stint. It also gives far more resistance on temperature variations between Q and race and during the race. On the other hand, if you get the pole and are able to run in clear air you can also control the race so it's not a bad approach.

What would be the best of both worlds? Setting the car up for the race and having enough downforce to still put the car on pole. From everything Vasseur and Cardille said so far - they are happy with how they handle the tyres and won't compromise it for outright performance, they will add performance through downforce alone and these are the 3-4 tenths they always mention. After so many pointless pole positions last year, this really is the right way to the top for Ferrari.

Thank you so much for re-directing me into that post and post!