2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[CHT]

Hamilton has a good nose for when efforts will be futile.. He leaves Mercedes not one year too early and not one year too late. It can be argued that Mercedes owes him a championship they will never be able to give him back. And this bothers Toto.

A glass can be half full or half empty. One could say that LH should be grateful to Merc for providing him with winning cars all these years (even when he was in Mclaren)

LH moving to Ferrari is not without risk
a) Ferrari may not be able to deliver the car he needs to win
b) LH may not be quicker than younger teammate
c) Merc may bouce back in 2026 with a strong package
d) RB and Max may continue to dominate beyond 2025

[Waz]

Hamilton has a good nose for when efforts will be futile.. He leaves Mercedes not one year too early and not one year too late. It can be argued that Mercedes owes him a championship they will never be able to give him back. And this bothers Toto.

It's the flawed idea that Mercedes owes Hamilton yet another championship after providing him with six already that is the root of all these overblown excuses.

It may also be this same entitlement is hindering their progress, which clearly comes from the top down in Toto.

[Mansell89]

Excuses that Toto/Ham/Rus are narrating to the media, are, I am sorry to say, now starting to look like pure gaslighting. They need to stop talking. Even if they keep repeating 'we are working on it' like a broken record, no matter whom the media speaks to --- that's the way to go. Keep all tech-talk-root-cause-investigations INTERNAL. That's the only way to lift the pressure on the engineers. Afterall, it doesn't matter whether they have two sets of media darlings trinity - Toto/Ham/Rus and it doesn't matter what they say in public - it's the engineers who have to fix the car.

Completely agree- I’ve been amazed by their approach frankly- I expected a much calmer, more pragmatic, measured and humble approach in the media but they really do appear to have swallowed their own hype during the glory years and they are almost trying to justify their performance to the world. Not sure if any of you are Boxing fans but Anthony Joshua went through exactly the same thing and eventually he’s had to learn from the embarassment of his talking and just get into the gym behind close doors and get to work. Sometimes there are shortfalls in your game that you don’t know you have until they are exposed.

Wolff is as bad as anyone for it and I’m surprised he hasn’t been more methodical and metronomic with things. Sometimes less is more when it comes to words.

[Big Tea]

I am beginning to think it is a good time for Hamilton to depart. Merc have slipped back from being in the top two but can not seem to get the mind set that they now have to restructure and work for glory not get wins "by right".
Maybe not Hamilton's fault, but his input is not helping.
Two drivers who have never had the cossetting he has would probably be better to get to where they nee to be now.

[basti313]

Maybe not Hamilton's fault, but his input is not helping.

Strange point...I think it is only about money. That so many key people are leaving is...money...
Merc simply strongly reduced the spendings and does not invest enough to keep the people on board with letting them design boats or supercars.
So I can not see any relation to Ham. Ham is just following the money now as the next Merc disaster is immanent in case they do not spend like crazy on the 26 engine development.

[chrisc90]

Hamilton has a good nose for when efforts will be futile.. He leaves Mercedes not one year too early and not one year too late. It can be argued that Mercedes owes him a championship they will never be able to give him back. And this bothers Toto.

It's the flawed idea that Mercedes owes Hamilton yet another championship after providing him with six already that is the root of all these overblown excuses.

It may also be this same entitlement is hindering their progress, which clearly comes from the top down in Toto.

<off topic removed>

But i digress.. Back to 2024/25

I think operationally, they have a lot to learn. Aside from a few of the good strategy calls they had, Barcelona 2021?, we tend not to see anything extra-ordinary from them these days. Things like pit-stops, they are new severley lacking in being up at the top of the times and often down the lower end of the grid, with only the Kick team being worse I think. Strange as pit-stops and the efficiency is something that can be worked on for very little budget, unless theres big changes needed to equipment, but not really something we ever hear of being changed. They have struggled with the 18" wheels/tyre combination.

Actually some interesting information about the 2023 pitstop times here:
https://inmotion.dhl/en/formula-1/faste ... stop-award

I really can't put my finger on things at Mercedes at the minute. It almost seems like there needs to be a pretty big shakeup to what is going on, how things are run, managed etc.

I agree with the others when they say that Toto/team need to stop coming out with the excuses to the under-performance. Fans have had all sorts over the last few seasons, letters of apology, promises of big 1 - 1.5second upgrades, excuses, apologies, publicly slating the car, high profile 'sackings' etc. I really feel for the die hard/big Mercedes F1 fans that are having to go through some of these things. Ive seen a LOT of disgruntled fans across forums and social media about performances very recently. I think a lot are getting a bit fed up!

Forwards onto 2026, Mercedes are going to need a mighty good PU setup if they still cant understand this ground effect era, given 2026 is very similar to now, just with active aero (from my limited reading on 2026). Is Toto the right man for the job? We've seen how Fred Vasseur has stamped his mark on the Ferrari operations in a short period of time.

Please - don't see this as bashing, slating, negative post or whatever, as just trying to get conversation going on some things. As a fan of the sport, I hope they can turn things round and get to competing at the top 3/4 teams and having a good fight overall for places and points. Its what most fans want to see happen.

[Cocles]

Things like pit-stops, they are new severley lacking in being up at the top of the times and often down the lower end of the grid...

https://inmotion.dhl/en/formula-1/faste ... stop-award

You can criticize them for a lot of things this season, but not pit-stops. They said they'd be upgrading their gear to produce faster times for '24 and they've delivered a big improvement. The site you listed as your source has them up at #3 for overall fastest pitstops in '24.

[AR3-GP]

There is now a new explanation for Hamilton's lack of pace in the first stint in Japan. According to Toto Wolff, it is not the front wing damage that caused it. It is because Hamilton was testing extreme setups again.

“There’s an easy explanation behind it,” Wolff began in reference to Hamilton’s yield. “Lewis again also we experimented on some things on his car and it looked like there was much worse degradation because of that on the front axle.

“And that’s why he said ‘I’m going to let him pass’, because it’s testing, like I say. And that was extremely fair play.

“It wasn’t like he was giving up a position for a podium, it was really trying to understand why wasn’t he fast at that stage and that was clearly because we were doing something to the car which we wanted to try.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... ield-japan

mein Gott

[scuderiabrandon]

There is now a new explanation for Hamilton's lack of pace in the first stint in Japan. According to Toto Wolff, it is not the front wing damage that caused it. It is because Hamilton was testing extreme setups again.

“There’s an easy explanation behind it,” Wolff began in reference to Hamilton’s yield. “Lewis again also we experimented on some things on his car and it looked like there was much worse degradation because of that on the front axle.

“And that’s why he said ‘I’m going to let him pass’, because it’s testing, like I say. And that was extremely fair play.

“It wasn’t like he was giving up a position for a podium, it was really trying to understand why wasn’t he fast at that stage and that was clearly because we were doing something to the car which we wanted to try.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... ield-japan

mein Gott

It's their only hope at figuring their current situation out. Ferrari did this in Zandvoort last season. When the drivers speak about that race, they always talk about it as a turning point in their season.

[AR3-GP]

There is now a new explanation for Hamilton's lack of pace in the first stint in Japan. According to Toto Wolff, it is not the front wing damage that caused it. It is because Hamilton was testing extreme setups again.

“There’s an easy explanation behind it,” Wolff began in reference to Hamilton’s yield. “Lewis again also we experimented on some things on his car and it looked like there was much worse degradation because of that on the front axle.

“And that’s why he said ‘I’m going to let him pass’, because it’s testing, like I say. And that was extremely fair play.

“It wasn’t like he was giving up a position for a podium, it was really trying to understand why wasn’t he fast at that stage and that was clearly because we were doing something to the car which we wanted to try.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... ield-japan

mein Gott

It's their only hope at figuring their current situation out. Ferrari did this in Zandvoort last season. When the drivers speak about that race, they always talk about it as a turning point in their season.

When Ferrari experimented, there was instant progression. Mercedes has been experimenting for 3 seasons. It's simply surreal.

[chrisc90]

A extreme setup that only really worked on mediums?

At this rate, might aswell sacrifice the whole race and use it as a 2hr test session.

[leblanc]

So clearly, that narrative of LH'S decision to leave was not influenced by the performance of the car is nonsense. I know someone a while back posted a tweet saying LH hadn't even gone in the simulator before he made his decision. Can we trust mercs account of this?

Well LH was at the Merc factory in Oct 2023 offering the "team" encouragement and cheering them on to keep fighting while feeling inspired and optimistic about the W15 after visiting wind tunnel

But little did the team knows that their pilot decided to abandon the plane 2 month later.

As i know Merc are always complain about corelation with their design simulators. So I am not sure how LH could made the decision to abandon the team of people who have provided him with 8 to 9 years of championship winning car after testing a possible "faulty" equipment?

The common denominator is Toto losing a lot of talented people that supported Lewis’ tremendously successful career at Mercedes. Now Toto’s lost Lewis, too.

[CHT]

So clearly, that narrative of LH'S decision to leave was not influenced by the performance of the car is nonsense. I know someone a while back posted a tweet saying LH hadn't even gone in the simulator before he made his decision. Can we trust mercs account of this?

Well LH was at the Merc factory in Oct 2023 offering the "team" encouragement and cheering them on to keep fighting while feeling inspired and optimistic about the W15 after visiting wind tunnel

But little did the team knows that their pilot decided to abandon the plane 2 month later.

As i know Merc are always complain about corelation with their design simulators. So I am not sure how LH could made the decision to abandon the team of people who have provided him with 8 to 9 years of championship winning car after testing a possible "faulty" equipment?

The common denominator is Toto losing a lot of talented people that supported Lewis’ tremendously successful career at Mercedes. Now Toto’s lost Lewis, too.

I believe Toto did what he had to do to keep Lewis happy and that relationship has been working fine for a good 10 years, delivering a record number of WDC and WCC. To now blame it on Toto alone, I think it is a little unfair.

LH leaving Merc may be a good thing because with LH around, and having Toto treating him like a crowned prince, engineers will never get a chance to explore other possibilities and design philosophies with younger drivers who are more adaptable and adventurous

[leblanc]

I believe Toto did what he had to do to keep Lewis happy and that relationship has been working fine for a good 10 years, delivering a record number of WDC and WCC. To now blame it on Toto alone, I think it is a little unfair.

Respectfully, you can be politely contrarian and move goalposts all you want, but the common denominator for talent loss at Mercedes is Toto.

That said, I acknowledge that dream teams all eventually dissolve into rebuilding eras replete with mediocre to dismal results.

LH leaving Merc may be a good thing because with LH around, and having Toto treating him like a crowned prince…

I wouldn’t call historically diminishing Lewis’ questioning strategy calls or input on car design/setup treating him like a crown prince. I also wouldn’t call not awarding Lewis the contract he really wanted royal treatment.

Sometimes, yes, it’s time to part ways and things improve for all parties involved.

engineers will never get a chance to explore other possibilities and design philosophies with younger drivers who are more adaptable and adventurous

Again, respectfully, engineers design the fastest car they can and it’s up to the driver to maximize its potential when driving it.

I’m not a Hamilton fan. I find him passive-aggressive and quite vapid outside his driving abilities.

But, Toto is clearly unable to lead the current talent pool in a successful direction, and has been unsuccessful at replacing the talent he’s lost.

[AR3-GP]

I agree that the pressure to make Hamilton win again for Mercedes is actually quite a negative burden at the moment and that its good for both sides to take a break. Mercedes engineers can start fresh without the baggage of feeling like they have to find a silver bullet for the next race weekend and without a constant feeling of guilt for not providing a car worthy of a 7x champion.

Then again, I thought the same thing when Alonso left Alpine and then they became even worse somehow...