2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Cs98]

He used to draw the whole thing by hand back in the day, those were true "Newey cars".

Back in the day being the 1980s. He hasn't designed a car on his own since he was at March and even then it wouldn't have been just him doing it.

Sure, not entirely alone. But as I understand when he got to RB in the mid 00s he drew the RB3 entirely by hand, much of it from memory based on the McLaren. That's obviously not how modern cars are designed.

[TeamKoolGreen]

As Joe Saward reminds us ,6 months ago , Newey ordered a custom yacht to "said around the world". Neweys words.
Pleasure sailing around the world takes 3-5 years. So it is more than likely that Newey decided to retire even before anything happened with Horner. So all the stuff spewed about it is mostly libelous nonsense

[Vanja #66]

Indeed. With red bull's decision to build their own PU from scratch, it made Max's options seem like Ferrari, AMR and Mercedes. Maybe Max would've stayed to see if RB could do something with RBPT, but the power struggle maybe just accelerated his inevitable departure.

Ferrari is now off the table and AMR seem to be persisting with Stroll so Merc seems obvious to me

To be fair, RB did put a lot of effort into making a deal with Porsche, but Porsche was unrealistic with their expectations. You can't sit at the table with arguably the most competent team at the time and expect them to let you de facto take control over the operation.

With all that, I fully support the decision to go it alone. The problem? Marko and Jos started blaming Horner for the failed deal. Honda was also not completely sure they will continue in F1 past 2025 iirc, I'd also be frustrated at their indecisiveness and seek a support-role partner for RBPT.

Painfull short term, but will bear fruit long term. Not exactly attractive to Marko and Verstappens, who are focused on their own success of course. As for Newey, he'd be able to continue for a while for sure and RB did start reducing their dependancy on him as a part of long term strategy obviously. However, politics and bad atmosphere in the team alienated him and some people say neither Wache nor Balbo are enjoying things and might also leave soon.

Before people start acussing Horner for everything, they should understand it takes two to tango. Marko and Verstappen short term vision would leave the team vulnerable and dependable long term. They then proceeded to introduce the clause behind Horner's back. Honestly, that was a very dishonest move for people who claim moral high ground...If you don't agree with a big strategical decision, just walk away without a fuss instead of "whistleblowing" internal affairs and leaving the whole Red Bull group exposed to court of public opinion

[Waz]

Not sure "isn't important" is accurate, but perhaps not as important anymore as he is made out to be in the eyes of the media and fans. Brings to mind this article from a few weeks ago.

I'm of the opinion that no one person in the factory is so important that the whole thing falls apart without them. Yes, some people are better at the job than others, but if Newey (or Wache, or whomever) is so important to the team, why haven't they won everything since the day he moved there up to today? Simple: because that's not how it works. But, as you say, the media (and the fans that believe the media) do like to put individuals on pedestals. Sells copy, I guess.

Unfortunately for your opinion, the history of Formula One is littered with examples of one really important person making the difference between championship winning team or also rans.

That's exactly why the famous designers or engineers are famous. Red Bull will continue to be a competitive outfit without Newey, such is their incredible depth of talent and professionalism.

However, we have yet to see any of Newey's highly regarded deputies create a championship winning car though, or even win more than a single race at a different team.

On the other hand, every team Newey has gone too, has won multiple championships while he is there.

[SiLo]

As Joe Saward reminds us ,6 months ago , Newey ordered a custom yacht to "said around the world". Neweys words.
Pleasure sailing around the world takes 3-5 years. So it is more than likely that Newey decided to retire even before anything happened with Horner. So all the stuff spewed about it is mostly libelous nonsense

There are actually some good videos on youtube with Newey about designing the yacht.

[AtlasZX]

He used to draw the whole thing by hand back in the day, those were true "Newey cars".

Back in the day being the 1980s. He hasn't designed a car on his own since he was at March and even then it wouldn't have been just him doing it.

Sure, not entirely alone. But as I understand when he got to RB in the mid 00s he drew the RB3 entirely by hand, much of it from memory based on the McLaren. That's obviously not how modern cars are designed.

The Pacific PR01 was also a B193 literally drawn by memory by ppl who worked on it

[TeamKoolGreen]

Didn't the old Minardi (Toro Rosso) chassis beat Neweys first Red Bull car...

[AtlasZX]

Didn't the old Minardi (Toro Rosso) chassis beat Neweys first Red Bull car...

Toro Rosso raced old RBR chassis between 2006 and 2009.
Red Bull at the time was more focused on building the foundations of a succesfull team rather than a mid field one, Minardi was more "used to" at extracting performance from uncompetitive cars.

[Seanspeed]

Not sure "isn't important" is accurate, but perhaps not as important anymore as he is made out to be in the eyes of the media and fans. Brings to mind this article from a few weeks ago.

This same exact situation occurred with Mclaren back in 2014 when they hired Peter Prodromou, who was similarly stated by some to be the 'real' mind behind Red Bull's cars, and that Newey was supposedly only in a supervising role.

End result? Mclaren came out with some lackluster Red Bull copy, all while Red Bull continued to design top chassis let down merely by poor engines, and returned to the very top once their engines were competitive again.

I dont know what Newey needs to do at this point for some people to grasp that his participation in some of the best and most innovative cars in F1 in the past decades is not some sort of weird coincidence. :/

[AR3-GP]

Not sure "isn't important" is accurate, but perhaps not as important anymore as he is made out to be in the eyes of the media and fans. Brings to mind this article from a few weeks ago.

This same exact situation occurred with Mclaren back in 2014 when they hired Peter Prodromou, who was similarly stated by some to be the 'real' mind behind Red Bull's cars, and that Newey was supposedly only in a supervising role.

End result? Mclaren came out with some lackluster Red Bull copy, all while Red Bull continued to design top chassis let down merely by poor engines, and returned to the very top once their engines were competitive again.

I dont know what Newey needs to do at this point for some people to grasp that his participation in some of the best and most innovative cars in F1 in the past decades is not some sort of weird coincidence. :/

None of this is mutually exclusive though. Peter Promodrou is talented. Adrian Newey is talented. Both of them require the correct environment. Mclaren was never appropriate until more recently. Mercedes did not let customer teams use high power modes in 2014 so there's no point even discussing Mclaren of 2014. From 2015 Honda was a disaster. Also not Peter's fault. Mclaren also didn't have their own windtunnel until last year and were running out of money around COVID. Only Stella's leadership allowed Promodrou to stretch his legs. There's a number of reasons why Mclaren has been struggling that would have also caused Newey to struggle if he went there, and eventually leave for a second time.

The same thing will apply with Wache and Balbo. Brilliant minds, but ultimately the team that you make your home matters too. There's no guarantee that any of these people will be able to replicate their success at Red Bull in another team. What they created at Red Bull was ultimately quite unique. There efforts were never hindered and they never answered to manufacturer CEOs. We all know how good engineers had been stifled for years at Ferrari because of their broken leadership and then flourished in other teams (Aldo Costa, James Allison).

The sport will go on with them broken apart, but it is ultimately poorer for it.

[Seanspeed]

None of this is mutually exclusive though. Peter Promodrou is talented. Adrian Newey is talented. Both of them require the correct environment. Mclaren was never appropriate until more recently. Mercedes did not let customer teams use high power modes in 2014 so there's no point even discussing Mclaren of 2014. From 2015 Honda was a disaster. Also not Peter's fault. Mclaren also didn't have their own windtunnel until last year and were running out of money around COVID. There's a number of reasons why Mclaren has been struggling that would have also caused Newey to struggle if he went there, and eventually leave for a second time.

The same thing will apply with Wache and Balbo. Brilliant minds, but ultimately the team that you make your home matters to. There's no guarantee that any of these people will be able to replicate their success at Red Bull in another team. What they created at Red Bull was ultimately quite unique. The sport is ultimately poorer when they have broken apart.

The Promodrou Mclarens weren't simply let down by engines, though. They were up against a Red Bull that was similarly suffering from lackluster engines, but the Red Bull was almost always WAY more competitive.

I'm not saying Peter was some hack, just that the clear mind behind the Red Bull success was so very obviously Adrian Newey.

As a New England Patriots fan(NFL, for those who dont know), I'd seen this so many times when teams would hire Patriots coordinators and whatnot thinking they were somehow the key to success, but they almost always failed elsewhere, because it turned out the the obvious thing everybody suspected - that Bill Belichick was simply the GOAT head coach - was actually true.

Like, you do remember that Newey has had great success before Red Bull, right? This hasn't been some one-off success for him. Even if he'd retired after 2005, he'd still be considered one of the best designers of all-time.

[AR3-GP]

None of this is mutually exclusive though. Peter Promodrou is talented. Adrian Newey is talented. Both of them require the correct environment. Mclaren was never appropriate until more recently. Mercedes did not let customer teams use high power modes in 2014 so there's no point even discussing Mclaren of 2014. From 2015 Honda was a disaster. Also not Peter's fault. Mclaren also didn't have their own windtunnel until last year and were running out of money around COVID. There's a number of reasons why Mclaren has been struggling that would have also caused Newey to struggle if he went there, and eventually leave for a second time.

The same thing will apply with Wache and Balbo. Brilliant minds, but ultimately the team that you make your home matters to. There's no guarantee that any of these people will be able to replicate their success at Red Bull in another team. What they created at Red Bull was ultimately quite unique. The sport is ultimately poorer when they have broken apart.

The Promodrou Mclarens weren't simply let down by engines, though. They were up against a Red Bull that was similarly suffering from lackluster engines, but the Red Bull was almost always WAY more competitive.

I'm not saying Peter was some hack, just that the clear mind behind the Red Bull success was so very obviously Adrian Newey.

I think you are still missing the point here. It's like asking the chef to cook with utensils that are made from chocolate vs ones that are made out of metal.

There's a reason that Adrian Newey stayed at Red Bull for 18 years and would have continued for many more if not for reasons that appear to be of a personal nature. Adrian Newey has had multiple advances from Ferrari, Mercedes, Mclaren and he turned them down every single time. Why? There's your answer.

The drama at Red Bull has forced him to pursue second pickings if he wants to stay in F1. It is rather unfortunate that it came to this but I can't blame him. From what is reported, the position is simply untenable.

[Chuckjr]

As Joe Saward reminds us ,6 months ago , Newey ordered a custom yacht to "said around the world". Neweys words.
Pleasure sailing around the world takes 3-5 years. So it is more than likely that Newey decided to retire even before anything happened with Horner. So all the stuff spewed about it is mostly libelous nonsense

There are actually some good videos on youtube with Newey about designing the yacht.

You don’t do something like that with plans to be in F1 for another 8-10 years.
You don’t do something like that with plans to park the new boat in the harbor for 8-10 years.
You don’t do something like sailing around the world in your late 70’s to 80’s.

Bye Adrian.
Enjoy your retirement.

[Just_a_fan]

Unfortunately for your opinion, the history of Formula One is littered with examples of one really important person making the difference between championship winning team or also rans.

And yet he has been involved with as many non-winning cars. Why did those lose? Did his mojo fail him?

And if the cars that Newey worked on are all "his", that means he killed Senna. It was a car failure that led to his death.

(No, I don't think Newey killed Senna, but that's where the logic leads us. If the FW14 was all Newey then the FW16 (same crew) was also all Newey. You can't have it any other way.)

[Just_a_fan]

As Joe Saward reminds us ,6 months ago , Newey ordered a custom yacht to "said around the world". Neweys words.
Pleasure sailing around the world takes 3-5 years. So it is more than likely that Newey decided to retire even before anything happened with Horner. So all the stuff spewed about it is mostly libelous nonsense

There are actually some good videos on youtube with Newey about designing the yacht.

You don’t do something like that with plans to be in F1 for another 8-10 years.
You don’t do something like that with plans to park the new boat in the harbor for 8-10 years.
You don’t do something like sailing around the world in your late 70’s to 80’s.

Bye Adrian.
Enjoy your retirement.

So many people hoping that Adrian leaves rather than goes to Ferrari. Hate to see Ferrari win with Lewis behind the wheel. You're transparent, I'll give you that.