2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Matt2725]

Serious overhaul needed in that team.

They clearly do not have the expertise and skill set required any more.

[214270]

Ant at the skypad said poor rear grip in the high speed, understeer in the low; not a great deal appears to have changed.

[Venturiation]

2026 engine won't change things
Mclaren has the same engine now and see where they are

[j_ste]

Ant at the skypad said poor rear grip in the high speed, understeer in the low; not a great deal appears to have changed.

When he said it finally feels like a car in pre season, you knew it was over. The faintest of praise was taken for something substantial.

[Matt2725]

I can only assume it's their wind tunnel/CFD software. They must be following false data.

[Venturiation]

[F1NAC]

Yikes. That camera view says it all.

As we would say nowadays in my Country, "Toto vrime je!".

[Vanja #66]

I'm not gonna even point out the obvious any more, this is just too sad... Neither Russell nor Hamilton deserve this. Not even launch SF23 was this bad a year ago

[venkyhere]

I don't even remember how many times I've posted in this thread itself :

"The only fix for Mercedes is to accept that they are a midfield team now. Shed the engine supplier ego, shed the 8 constructors champion ego. Their perspective about "what to fix, what to leave alone" will change, because they will go from "want podium" to "want points". They will "invest" into revamping their now defunct tools and they will change the benchmark laptime that they reference to, before each race, both in simulator and during FPs"

[Just_a_fan]

Hopefully, the FIA will stick to their own regulations.

He's got way more experience in single seaters than Max ever had. Or, indeed, Kimi Raikkonen.

Or is that inconvenient?

[Cs98]

Hopefully, the FIA will stick to their own regulations.

He's got way more experience in single seaters than Max ever had. Or, indeed, Kimi Raikkonen.

Or is that inconvenient?

It doesn't make much sense to give him dispensation when the rules were changed to specifically prevent people below 18 from joining.

[214270]

Ant at the skypad said poor rear grip in the high speed, understeer in the low; not a great deal appears to have changed.

When he said it finally feels like a car in pre season, you knew it was over. The faintest of praise was taken for something substantial.

In fairness, Ant’s perspective is the feel from Sim. He then observed a lap in preseason where it genuinely looked good out on track; if my memory is correct it was also running super low at the time. That may be part of the problem here.

[Just_a_fan]

Hopefully, the FIA will stick to their own regulations.

He's got way more experience in single seaters than Max ever had. Or, indeed, Kimi Raikkonen.

Or is that inconvenient?

It doesn't make much sense to give him dispensation when the rules were changed to specifically prevent people below 18 from joining.

Convenient rule changes aren't always the right rule changes. If the current triple world champion was allowed to do F1 after almost no single seater experience then there's little valid argument preventing others from doing the same.

"He's a kid and so can't be any good!"
"Yeah, but Max..."

Frankly, if it was me then Max and several others would have had to wait - F1 should be a grown up sport. Wait until they are early 20s before letting them in.

[zibby43]

Someone has bought into the "driver outperforms his car" idea.

No point paying $100m for a driver if the car is not good enough. The Red Bull is half a second or more quicker than the rest - that's simple physics. No driver can go faster than the car is able to go, doesn't matter who it is. All the best drivers do is get closer to the car's pace and they do it consistently.

Max in the Merc isn't winning titles.

He's probably winning races though with a step similar to what McLaren made in Austria last year.

You don't have to dig too deep to put a dent in the "driver doesn't make a difference" theory by looking what Max Verstappen is doing to Sergio Perez on a routine basis in the same car.

Or what Hamilton did to Bottas over a race distance. Both Bottas and Perez are multiple-GP winners to boot.

Max is better than Sergio, Hamilton is better than Bottas is not shocking news. Some drivers are better than others. But no driver can go faster than the car is physically able to go is my point. If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

I agree with that. I think another way to frame what I said would be, in equal machinery I think Max is clearly faster than George and whatever this burned out version of LH is.

[Dunlay]

He's probably winning races though with a step similar to what McLaren made in Austria last year.

You don't have to dig too deep to put a dent in the "driver doesn't make a difference" theory by looking what Max Verstappen is doing to Sergio Perez on a routine basis in the same car.

Or what Hamilton did to Bottas over a race distance. Both Bottas and Perez are multiple-GP winners to boot.

Max is better than Sergio, Hamilton is better than Bottas is not shocking news. Some drivers are better than others. But no driver can go faster than the car is physically able to go is my point. If the Merc is still half a second slower than the competition then it's half a second slower than the competition.

I agree with that. I think another way to frame what I said would be, in equal machinery I think Max is clearly faster than George and whatever this burned out version of LH is.

I said this earlier in the thread and I say it again. Comparing Max in his ultra fast Red Bull with George in an unpredictable, third rate Mercedes is hardly wisdom. I have no doubt that Max would struggle in the current Mercedes as much as George and Lewis if not more. Might even be crashing harder than both of them. George would be doing same records as Max in that Red Bull. So until they are in the same equipment, you never know who is better than who.