2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[CHT]

Wache 2028, Verstappen 2028, sounds like they'll both be staying for the duration. Already rumours Verstappen thinks Wache is the most important technical figure in the team.

AN has left behind a formidable team and a good working culture of engineers. Perhaps the team culture has got less bureaucracy from big auto giants, which make them a fun team to work for. And the number of women staffs working in the team does suggest RB is a safe place for women too. Though some may disagree.

[Vanja #66]

Feelings aside Verstappen confirmed there was a hole in the floor when they took the car back to the garage and suggested it came from hitting the bollard, so tell us more about this "phantom" damage Vanja

Guys, guys, I know you think much of me, but I'm not able to see future posts before they are made

In any case, Max' feeling in the race was fine so any damage was minimal. There was no change of pace. It's not like a piece of bodywork stuck in beam wing like Silverstone 22, that was a real problem

[chrisc90]

Feelings aside Verstappen confirmed there was a hole in the floor when they took the car back to the garage and suggested it came from hitting the bollard, so tell us more about this "phantom" damage Vanja

Guys, guys, I know you think much of me, but I'm not able to see future posts before they are made

In any case, Max' feeling in the race was fine so any damage was minimal. There was no change of pace. It's not like a piece of bodywork stuck in beam wing like Silverstone 22, that was a real problem

Maybe if it wasnt that important RBR should take your view on board of the equal design and save a bit of weight going forwards.
The bodywork is clearly there for a reason.

[Cs98]

Feelings aside Verstappen confirmed there was a hole in the floor when they took the car back to the garage and suggested it came from hitting the bollard, so tell us more about this "phantom" damage Vanja

Guys, guys, I know you think much of me, but I'm not able to see future posts before they are made

In any case, Max' feeling in the race was fine so any damage was minimal. There was no change of pace. It's not like a piece of bodywork stuck in beam wing like Silverstone 22, that was a real problem

Well when you have a video showing the damage occurring and several people telling you what to look for, and you still in denial, then I think we can ask a bit more of you Anyways, no one is saying it was costing him seconds a lap like Silverstone 2022. But a few tenths from a hole in the diffuser? You bet.

[bananapeel23]

Feelings aside Verstappen confirmed there was a hole in the floor when they took the car back to the garage and suggested it came from hitting the bollard, so tell us more about this "phantom" damage Vanja

Guys, guys, I know you think much of me, but I'm not able to see future posts before they are made

In any case, Max' feeling in the race was fine so any damage was minimal. There was no change of pace. It's not like a piece of bodywork stuck in beam wing like Silverstone 22, that was a real problem

Well when you have a video showing the damage occurring and several people telling you what to look for, and you still in denial, then I think we can ask a bit more of you Anyways, no one is saying it was costing him seconds a lap like Silverstone 2022. But a few tenths from a hole in the diffuser? You bet.

That is just the cutout. Most cars have a diffuser cutout there. I don't see it getting any bigger from the hit. Also it would be highly unlikely to break in such a neat and clean fashion that it still looks smooth even after a hit if it broke. There was damage for sure, but that isn't it.

In all likelihood the damage was just a tiny part of the underside of the floor getting a hole punched through it, maybe even some scraping. Remember that Red Bull described the damage as a hole, not as a piece of the diffuser being torn off.

There was no significant change in pace from before the incident. Red Bull just had setup issues which made their performance bad before and after the damage. It surely was not more than a tenth per lap. Yes, Verstappen gapped Piastri a little bit during the first stint, but Norris was significantly faster on the mediums than he was AND he had sidepod and floor upgrades which Piastri did not. Norris was always faster than Verstappen and the damage didn't change that.

[Vanja #66]

Maybe if it wasnt that important RBR should take your view on board of the equal design and save a bit of weight going forwards.
The bodywork is clearly there for a reason.

Indeed they should

[Cs98]

Guys, guys, I know you think much of me, but I'm not able to see future posts before they are made

In any case, Max' feeling in the race was fine so any damage was minimal. There was no change of pace. It's not like a piece of bodywork stuck in beam wing like Silverstone 22, that was a real problem

Well when you have a video showing the damage occurring and several people telling you what to look for, and you still in denial, then I think we can ask a bit more of you Anyways, no one is saying it was costing him seconds a lap like Silverstone 2022. But a few tenths from a hole in the diffuser? You bet.

That is just the cutout. Most cars have a diffuser cutout there. I don't see it getting any bigger from the hit. Also it would be highly unlikely to break in such a neat and clean fashion that it still looks smooth even after a hit if it broke. There was damage for sure, but that isn't it.

In all likelihood the damage was just a tiny part of the underside of the floor getting a hole punched through it, maybe even some scraping. Remember that Red Bull described the damage as a hole, not as a piece of the diffuser being torn off.

There was no significant change in pace from before the incident. Red Bull just had setup issues which made their performance bad before and after the damage. It surely was not more than a tenth per lap. Yes, Verstappen gapped Piastri a little bit during the first stint, but Norris was significantly faster on the mediums than he was AND he had sidepod and floor upgrades which Piastri did not. Norris was always faster than Verstappen and the damage didn't change that.

I know Norris was faster on the mediums, never claimed otherwise, that does not change the fact there was clearly carbon debris flying out of the diffuser during that excursion. The diffuser is a critical part of the car and any damage there will have influence on the pace.

As for this claim there was no pace difference, let's look at the times. Verstappen's times: 32,6 - 32,5 - 32,9 (lap of the incident) - 32,9 - VSC - boxed for new tyres. So the one good reference lap after the incident pre-VSC he was 4 tenths slower than the lap before the incident. Could that be consistent with 2-3 tenths worth of damage? Yes. After he pitted it obviously becomes hard to compare the times.

[AR3-GP]

Ver continues to perform strong safety car restarts (has been the case for years). These small details make a difference over a season. This time he stayed with Norris and at least made him take a defensive line into the first corner. At another circuit there could have been an overtake. So often when the roles are reversed, Verstappen manages to pull 7-8 tenths on 2nd place before the drivers even cross the start finish line. They even changed the restart rules after 2021 but it hasn’t taken this skill away.

[Cs98]

Guys, guys, I know you think much of me, but I'm not able to see future posts before they are made

In any case, Max' feeling in the race was fine so any damage was minimal. There was no change of pace. It's not like a piece of bodywork stuck in beam wing like Silverstone 22, that was a real problem

Well when you have a video showing the damage occurring and several people telling you what to look for, and you still in denial, then I think we can ask a bit more of you Anyways, no one is saying it was costing him seconds a lap like Silverstone 2022. But a few tenths from a hole in the diffuser? You bet.

That is just the cutout. Most cars have a diffuser cutout there. I don't see it getting any bigger from the hit. Also it would be highly unlikely to break in such a neat and clean fashion that it still looks smooth even after a hit if it broke. There was damage for sure, but that isn't it.

In all likelihood the damage was just a tiny part of the underside of the floor getting a hole punched through it, maybe even some scraping. Remember that Red Bull described the damage as a hole, not as a piece of the diffuser being torn off.

There was no significant change in pace from before the incident. Red Bull just had setup issues which made their performance bad before and after the damage. It surely was not more than a tenth per lap. Yes, Verstappen gapped Piastri a little bit during the first stint, but Norris was significantly faster on the mediums than he was AND he had sidepod and floor upgrades which Piastri did not. Norris was always faster than Verstappen and the damage didn't change that.

https://i.imgur.com/rKdo1e0.mp4
Very clear here. Look at the cutout increase in size. Lucky the pace wasn't more affected tbh.

[Watto]

Wache 2028, Verstappen 2028, sounds like they'll both be staying for the duration. Already rumours Verstappen thinks Wache is the most important technical figure in the team.

I suspended it had a role to play in them letting Newey without really pressing the gardening leave too hard -i would assume legally they may not be able to force gardening leave (depending you how ask ) buy I think his contract to the end of 2025 may have been an issue if he wants to go elsewhere.


Also Max said this weekend Neweys role isnt as critical to RB as it once was when you know how RB works now days

[ringo]

yes Max made the wrong decision to cut the chicane. I can't even call it driving mistake, as he could've easily kept it on track losing a bit of laptime, but deliberately decided to cheat a lilbit, as they drivers often do these days on these kind of sh*tty race tracks that allow for that. We saw all drivers do similar things, and going away from it with no damage, you cannot predict the outcome, but Max will for sure study more carefully how these bollards are mounted to the ground next time. If was costly.
If there was a wall, gravel or grass, Max wouldn't have gotten any damage. So, he decided to cut the chicane to lose no time, but he made that decision when was a bit too late already, and found himself in the middle, coming right at the cone. But the cone itself wasn't a problem, the cone didn't produce any damage, it was the mounting that was helding that cone, made of cast iron, that made all the damage, when his car landed right on it and compressed to the ground. There was a big hole in the left side of the diffuser throat visible immediately after his car landed on it.

Max lost significant amount of downforce and drivability no doubt. But also no doubt it wasn't great even before that, to start with. He was struggling to build a gap over Piastri, who was himself clearly not only slower than BOTH Ferrari all race (Leclerc folded letting him go like a cheap shirt without any fight), but even more so he was slower than Lando. We see basically all the time how much faster than Piastri Lando is on race days in equal cars. And yesterday Lando car had all the updates, that according to Mclaren could cost up to 2 tenths per lap.
SQ2 laptime set by Norris on still green track ,shows how much of wasted potential they left in Qualifying of the grand prix, for whatever reasons.
So, it wasn't perfect weekend for Max and red bull, but lets not downplay Mclaren pace and their upgrades. Even before it, in China we saw Norris pace.
Now it all depends on how will RBR and Ferrari upgrades work in Imola. and yes, of course Max will be back stronger, for sure. He needed that kind of a reality check. One small mistake, one wrongly made decision

I don't think he decided to cut the chicane to cheat a little bit. Looks like a simple lapse in concentration, which can happen on a street circuit especially when leading at the front and doing lap after boring lap, and then he had to bail off the track to mitigate damaging the tyres.
Yes I agree with the pace just being off. The humidity may well be the issue.
I was at least hoping he would fight back. It just did not seem like he tried to push to catch Lando. Or maybe the grip was already at a critical phase that he could only bring the car home. I would like to hear more on what really happened there. If even from some lap traces.

[venkyhere]

Guys, please, dismissing the damage to a car as "no effect on performance" is borderline ridiculous.

When there is clear evidence of "damage" and given the fact that there is not a single crease or surface or material on an F1 car that doesn't serve a purpose, that too on the floor of the car in a ground effect rules era; the bare minimum logic we can apply is - "there should be some detrimental effect", since we are not F1 engineers ourselves, we simply don't know how much difficulty it's causing to driving or how much laptime it is adding. But it's doing something for sure.

[Waz]

It's not that ridiculous when the cars are running several seconds slower than ultimate pace.

In qualifying, a small bit of damaged bodywork will stick out like a sore thumb in the lap times. In a race when they're nearly 4 seconds a lap slower, not so much.

[AR3-GP]

I don't think anyone is prepared to change their opinion on it, so there's not much left to discuss.

Ultimately, Red Bull was lacking before the damage, even if a little more after. Perhaps could have pulled further away from Ferrari without damage, but still not going to overcome Norris. One must accept this. Mclaren could have had a front row lockout and a 1-2 here. Red Bull needs to keep pushing. I'm sure they are.

[Vanja #66]

https://i.imgur.com/rKdo1e0.mp4
Very clear here. Look at the cutout increase in size. Lucky the pace wasn't more affected tbh.

Ah, there we are, a video evidence found at last, congrats. However, increasing the mouse hole size and letting tiny bit more air to feed diffuser vortex can hardly be a bad thing - that's why they have those holes in the first place