2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Just_a_fan]

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... o-mercedes



Wow!!! 220 people hired from Mercedes HPP into RBPT.
Now I wonder if Mercedes is going to have a competitive engine for 2026!

If those figures are true then that is pretty difficult for HPP going forward (assuming they're all "top" people, of course).

But I did smile at Horner's "I'm not going to get sucked in for a tit for tat" before do precisely that (with a mic-drop figure, admittedly).

I think, though I accept it probably continued the tit for tat Horner was just pointing out staff move between teams all the time. Using the turmoil at RB to try and destabilise us a little different. Though I do probably accept Horner isn’t exactly a saint when it comes to digs at other teams should the opportunity arise

Christian has always played the "aggressive victim" role to its full, so nothing new really. But it did make me smile in this case.

[Hoffman900]

lewis and toto being too political has hurt Mercedes how can they lose over 200 people its a disaster they are lucky the can always rely on knowhow from Germany. Their turbo was built using expertise from their truck division for example. Lewis after causing a mess is running off to ferrari.

0/10 take.

Lewis has no obligation to anyone but himself. Political? Yeah, 1000+ person corporations aren’t effected at all by Lewis’s “political” work, which is really low level in comparison to a lot of organizations.

The issue for Merc is the cost cap and not setting up themselves for success by being a lean / efficient organization, but being large and bureaucratic, and brut forcing their success by virtue of just being larger than everyone.

Redbull was set up as a lean efficient organization from the get go. It took Mclaren a long time to revamp. Merc, well they’re still feeling the effects.

What also isn’t talked about is that Merc will be supplying one less team on the grid in 2026, and that naturally will result in a reduction of man power as well.

[AR3-GP]

Now you are trying to conflate overall lap times with PU performance, but there's far more variables in terms of overall lap time. In terms of a PU trade-off you'd have to point to where Verstappen is getting all this extra PU performance he is giving up on the straights. You don't need it in the corners on this track, you are not power limited there, so where is it?

And psychoanalysis doesn't really compare to data. We don't know what they don't tell us and we don't know their motivations for what they do/don't tell. All we can do is look at the data we have available, and if you are telling me there's nothing to see in those traces I don't think you are being genuine. Rarely if ever do you see such blatant differences between teammates running the same wing levels.

I once suggested that Verstappen's preference for more front wing flap was adding drag, but this seems too big. Visually, the cars look the same. Where does Perez's extra top end come from?

At his point, both drivers have 2 PUs in their pool.

[Cs98]

Now you are trying to conflate overall lap times with PU performance, but there's far more variables in terms of overall lap time. In terms of a PU trade-off you'd have to point to where Verstappen is getting all this extra PU performance he is giving up on the straights. You don't need it in the corners on this track, you are not power limited there, so where is it?

And psychoanalysis doesn't really compare to data. We don't know what they don't tell us and we don't know their motivations for what they do/don't tell. All we can do is look at the data we have available, and if you are telling me there's nothing to see in those traces I don't think you are being genuine. Rarely if ever do you see such blatant differences between teammates running the same wing levels.

I once suggested that Verstappen's preference for more front wing flap was adding drag, but this seems too big. Visually, the cars look the same. Where does Perez's extra top end come from?

At his point, both drivers have 2 PUs in their pool.

Someone was talking about a reliability issue in the sprint affecting the PU, can't recall the source.

[TNTHead]

That the top of the engineering department has resigned until 2028 is for me a good sign that there will be stability in the making.

And, I don't know the normal design cycles of cars with new regulations, but should Newey not already have been involved in regulation analysis and conceptual design? I suppose thats the phase the teams are in now, or are already further down the design process. In that case the fingerprints of Newey should be on the 2026 RB also.

[AR3-GP]

That the top of the engineering department has resigned until 2028 is for me a good sign that there will be stability in the making.

And, I don't know the normal design cycles of cars with new regulations, but should Newey not already have been involved in regulation analysis and conceptual design? I suppose thats the phase the teams are in now, or are already further down the design process. In that case the fingerprints of Newey should be on the 2026 RB also.

The development for 2026 cars can only begin in 2025, but ultimately F1 is still a legacy sport. The big teams (Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull), are all benefitting from legacy technologies which feed into the new generations of car whether that is a particular suspension element, lightweight carbon composites, light weight metal alloys, simulation techniques, etc etc. There is plenty that teams are learning now, that will help them in 2026.

The only thing that you are really prevented from doing is having a physical windtunnel model until January 2025. The purpose of other "research" into materials, suspension technology, and so on for 2026 can be made ambiguous enough that you could claim it is for the 2025 car.

[PlatinumZealot]

I read somewhere that Newey has been muscled out of the design decisions for 2024 and he didn't take that with a warm smile.

The shark mouthed sidepod is a totally new idea and it garish curves are definitley not something Newey would approve of much less scribble on his drawing board. He shot down the idea despite the positive CFD numbers, and even as CTO he was outvoted in it's approval.

So yeah, clearly the team there is strong and can make winning cars without Newey, and Newey realises that as well. No point in conitnuing in his old age. Time let go. He use the term pass the baton. Not sure it was passed. It was grabbed from his tightly clenched grip.

[Watto]

I read somewhere that Newey has been muscled out of the design decisions for 2024 and he didn't take that with a warm smile.

The shark mouthed sidepod is a totally new idea and it garish curves are definitley not something Newey would approve of much less scribble on his drawing board. He shot down the idea despite the positive CFD numbers, and even as CTO he was outvoted in it's approval.

So yeah, clearly the team there is strong and can make winning cars without Newey, and Newey realises that as well. No point in conitnuing in his old age. Time let go. He use the term pass the baton. Not sure it was passed. It was grabbed from his tightly clenched grip.

Tend to be very skeptical over rumors like this.

Think there is often an element of truth to it but often a lot of mistruths too, how much they come out of the wekework after the departure.

[Watto]

If those figures are true then that is pretty difficult for HPP going forward (assuming they're all "top" people, of course).

But I did smile at Horner's "I'm not going to get sucked in for a tit for tat" before do precisely that (with a mic-drop figure, admittedly).

I think, though I accept it probably continued the tit for tat Horner was just pointing out staff move between teams all the time. Using the turmoil at RB to try and destabilise us a little different. Though I do probably accept Horner isn’t exactly a saint when it comes to digs at other teams should the opportunity arise

Christian has always played the "aggressive victim" role to its full, so nothing new really. But it did make me smile in this case.

Completely agree he and Toto are almost an old married couple in particular with one another think they so often play the same game.



I think the 200 is almost certainly a very heavy exaggeration but equally even if its true, a fair % would likely be very low level - probably part of CH tactic I guess heavy exaggeration

[AR3-GP]

All Verstappen radio messages during Miami transcribed: https://www.racefans.net/2024/05/07/hes ... -was-lost/

[AR3-GP]

[Sergej]

Red Bull package for Imola better be a substantial one because otherwise things will be difficult with this upgraded McLaren and mostly the new Ferrari which is mega hyped.

[AR3-GP]

They need at least 3 tenths for Imola. The Suzuka upgrade was reported as 1 tenth. So if Ferrari and Mclaren can bring 4 tenths in the first 7 rounds, then RB should be managing to do the same...

[Sergej]

I think the Suzuka upgrade was worth more than 1 tenth, we saw it in China where they probably managed to deal it better (shame they fu**ed the setup in Miami, I think it was even a good track for the RB20), but yes for sure they need a 2-3 tenth upgrade in Imola.

[Watto]

The photo sure gives a good idea on the damage caused.


I would be curious though if it was a a normal weekend without the sprints and RB nailed their setup would would things - though by the same token McLaren may have gotten theirs even better too. But think they made huge inroads towards RB no matter what.