2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Cs98
Cs98
33
Joined: 01 Jul 2022, 11:37

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

LM10 wrote:
10 May 2024, 18:18
Cs98 wrote:
10 May 2024, 17:47
Timtim99 wrote:
10 May 2024, 16:53


If you know this without seeing the data today, you need to be in a formula 1 team.
Just guesstimating based on how much time successful packages from other teams have brought, based on the scale of the changes. McLaren's 4 tenths package was more substantial than this, and RB's 1-1,5 tenth package at Suzuka was slightly smaller than the changes we have seen so far (without the expected floor). So I'd expect Ferrari to land somewhere in the middle. Could of course be different, maybe a visually small change generates a big benefit, or the package could be a let down. But my expectation is 2-3 tenths based on the visuals.
The floor generates like what, 80% of the overall downforce? There’s absolutely no way to predict any gains by simply looking at the changes on the outside.

Having said that, the visual upgrades are significant in my opinion. The inlet was never going to turn into a letterbox inlet given the completely different cooling layout of the Ferrari compared to others. Overbite combined with a P-shaped inlet making use of the already existing S-duct is as much as can be expected for a in-season upgrade package.
The upgrades are significant but they are clearly an evolution. Finding 4 tenths through one evolutionary in season upgrade is incredibly difficult. Macca did it last week but if you go down the list of components they changed you'll see that they hit basically everything. Front wing, suspension front and rear, floor, sidepod inlets, sidepod body, engine cover, coke bottle, beam wing, brake cooling inlets. The lot, and substantial changes too, not just tinkering a bit. Brand new front wing, brand new floor etc. That was 4 tenths (we think), and clearly making up for the lack of upgrades on the launch spec McL. Ferrari's launch spec was a far bigger step from the SF-23, and from what we've seen so far the upgrade is not as extensive as the Macca IMO. And then you had the Italian media for a long time saying they were expecting 2-3 tenths before they suddenly changed their tune and increased that as we got closer, is that genuine or just a bit of extra hype so that the same outlets can sell you the same story twice? Who knows. I am expecting 2-3 tenths, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was slightly more or less, you never know for sure until they race.

Sphere3758
Sphere3758
0
Joined: 19 Sep 2023, 18:48

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Do we have a single picture of Carlos in the car this afternoon? I can’t seem to find any on twitter, so strange.

User avatar
yooogurt
37
Joined: 03 Mar 2024, 11:39

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

LM10 wrote:
10 May 2024, 18:18
The floor generates like what, 80% of the overall downforce?
I read that 60% floor, 20% rear wing and 20% everything else.
FORZA FERRARI!

User avatar
Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
10 May 2024, 17:36
This is a proper B-spec car. It is significantly different in its design.
Let's not get frivolous now :mrgreen: B spec cars used to require new chassis. Today we can settle for substantially different nature of overall bodywork and resulting flow field, like W14B. Not even RB20 Japan spec can be considered a B spec, let alone McLaren or Ferrari upgrades. :D

yooogurt wrote:
10 May 2024, 19:09
I read that 60% floor, 20% rear wing and 20% everything else.
Floor is close to 70% and both wings are 35-40% depending on the df level. Rest of the bodywork and tyres generate lift :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

ferkan
ferkan
31
Joined: 06 Apr 2015, 20:50

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

What was so big about Japan spec for RB? Didnt seem that big, but maybe its just me.

jrdls
jrdls
0
Joined: 23 Apr 2024, 05:51

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Sphere3758 wrote:
10 May 2024, 18:49
Do we have a single picture of Carlos in the car this afternoon? I can’t seem to find any on twitter, so strange.
Here's one from funoanalisitecnica:
Image

User avatar
bananapeel23
9
Joined: 14 Feb 2023, 22:43
Location: Sweden

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Cs98 wrote:
10 May 2024, 18:44
LM10 wrote:
10 May 2024, 18:18
Cs98 wrote:
10 May 2024, 17:47

Just guesstimating based on how much time successful packages from other teams have brought, based on the scale of the changes. McLaren's 4 tenths package was more substantial than this, and RB's 1-1,5 tenth package at Suzuka was slightly smaller than the changes we have seen so far (without the expected floor). So I'd expect Ferrari to land somewhere in the middle. Could of course be different, maybe a visually small change generates a big benefit, or the package could be a let down. But my expectation is 2-3 tenths based on the visuals.
The floor generates like what, 80% of the overall downforce? There’s absolutely no way to predict any gains by simply looking at the changes on the outside.

Having said that, the visual upgrades are significant in my opinion. The inlet was never going to turn into a letterbox inlet given the completely different cooling layout of the Ferrari compared to others. Overbite combined with a P-shaped inlet making use of the already existing S-duct is as much as can be expected for a in-season upgrade package.
The upgrades are significant but they are clearly an evolution. Finding 4 tenths through one evolutionary in season upgrade is incredibly difficult. Macca did it last week but if you go down the list of components they changed you'll see that they hit basically everything. Front wing, suspension front and rear, floor, sidepod inlets, sidepod body, engine cover, coke bottle, beam wing, brake cooling inlets. The lot, and substantial changes too, not just tinkering a bit. Brand new front wing, brand new floor etc. That was 4 tenths (we think), and clearly making up for the lack of upgrades on the launch spec McL. Ferrari's launch spec was a far bigger step from the SF-23, and from what we've seen so far the upgrade is not as extensive as the Macca IMO. And then you had the Italian media for a long time saying they were expecting 2-3 tenths before they suddenly changed their tune and increased that as we got closer, is that genuine or just a bit of extra hype so that the same outlets can sell you the same story twice? Who knows. I am expecting 2-3 tenths, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was slightly more or less, you never know for sure until they race.
McLaren had issues that needed to be rectified before they could start going after outright performance. A lot of the work they put into the upgrade package was probably not aimed at outright performance, but rather at addressing issues that have popped up at certain tracks, like tyre wear or a narrow setup window. Only after they solved those issues could they chase outright performance.

Ferrari doesn't have that issue. They have the most mild-tempered car of all this season. The thing is insanely kind on its tyres, appears to have a massive setup window, has worked on every track so far and appears to have no significant weaknesses. It's a great car with no weaknesses to iron out before they can start chasing performance.

That means the Ferrari upgrades are in all likelihood simply focused on increasing downforce and losing drag, which is a luxury McLaren didn't have. As such even a smaller upgrade can yield similar performance gains, as they don't have to focus on anything other than pure performance. Ferrari didn't need a revolution, they needed an evolution.

User avatar
deadhead
52
Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Q3 can’t come soon enough..

CjC
CjC
11
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

deadhead wrote:
10 May 2024, 21:32
Q3 can’t come soon enough..
It’s certainly going to be the most intriguing one so far this season.
If McLaren gained 4ths, Ferrari 2/3ths, Red Bull ?ths
Could we see 5-6 driver/ 3 teams split by one and a half tenths for pole?? That would be epic!
So no doubt, Red Bulls upgrade will blow us Mclaren and Ferrari fans out of the water :wtf:
Just a fan's point of view

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
5
Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

bananapeel23 wrote:
10 May 2024, 20:47
McLaren had issues that needed to be rectified before they could start going after outright performance. A lot of the work they put into the upgrade package was probably not aimed at outright performance, but rather at addressing issues that have popped up at certain tracks, like tyre wear or a narrow setup window. Only after they solved those issues could they chase outright performance.

Ferrari doesn't have that issue. They have the most mild-tempered car of all this season. The thing is insanely kind on its tyres, appears to have a massive setup window, has worked on every track so far and appears to have no significant weaknesses. It's a great car with no weaknesses to iron out before they can start chasing performance.

That means the Ferrari upgrades are in all likelihood simply focused on increasing downforce and losing drag, which is a luxury McLaren didn't have. As such even a smaller upgrade can yield similar performance gains, as they don't have to focus on anything other than pure performance. Ferrari didn't need a revolution, they needed an evolution.
This feels a bit like rewriting history. Ferrari has struggled with several issues this year, somewhat pervasively, in fact. Low speed corner performance has not been ideal, faster corner performance/quick changes of direction have not been up to snuff of the best, and the car finds itself out of the window for quick warmup of tires too often.

Nothing catastrophic or anything, and the car has been generally been pretty good, but it's hardly a 'no weakness' car where there's no issues to address.

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
5
Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

CjC wrote:
10 May 2024, 21:59
deadhead wrote:
10 May 2024, 21:32
Q3 can’t come soon enough..
It’s certainly going to be the most intriguing one so far this season.
If McLaren gained 4ths, Ferrari 2/3ths, Red Bull ?ths
Could we see 5-6 driver/ 3 teams split by one and a half tenths for pole?? That would be epic!
So no doubt, Red Bulls upgrade will blow us Mclaren and Ferrari fans out of the water :wtf:
Red Bull almost never miss with upgrades and they're expecting something bigger here, so yea, expect normal service to resume. Our biggest question is likely to be whether we can stay ahead of Mclaren or not.

Xyz22
Xyz22
123
Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

I was considered pessimistic last year, but you guys are absolutely beating me right now. :D

User avatar
bananapeel23
9
Joined: 14 Feb 2023, 22:43
Location: Sweden

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Seanspeed wrote:
10 May 2024, 22:06
bananapeel23 wrote:
10 May 2024, 20:47
McLaren had issues that needed to be rectified before they could start going after outright performance. A lot of the work they put into the upgrade package was probably not aimed at outright performance, but rather at addressing issues that have popped up at certain tracks, like tyre wear or a narrow setup window. Only after they solved those issues could they chase outright performance.

Ferrari doesn't have that issue. They have the most mild-tempered car of all this season. The thing is insanely kind on its tyres, appears to have a massive setup window, has worked on every track so far and appears to have no significant weaknesses. It's a great car with no weaknesses to iron out before they can start chasing performance.

That means the Ferrari upgrades are in all likelihood simply focused on increasing downforce and losing drag, which is a luxury McLaren didn't have. As such even a smaller upgrade can yield similar performance gains, as they don't have to focus on anything other than pure performance. Ferrari didn't need a revolution, they needed an evolution.
This feels a bit like rewriting history. Ferrari has struggled with several issues this year, somewhat pervasively, in fact. Low speed corner performance has not been ideal, faster corner performance/quick changes of direction have not been up to snuff of the best, and the car finds itself out of the window for quick warmup of tires too often.

Nothing catastrophic or anything, and the car has been generally been pretty good, but it's hardly a 'no weakness' car where there's no issues to address.
Well yes, no car is totally free from issues. But out of the big 3 teams, Ferrari has had by far the least variation in track-specific performance. Never has the car looked weak at a track.

I guess what I meant is that it doesn't have any obvious fundamental flaws that have shown up. The Red Bull and McLaren cars appear to be setup princesses in comparison. They have both shown pretty significant performance highs and lows. Sometimes they struggle with tyre wear, sometimes with traction, sometimes with snap oversteer or understeer. Ferrari has been constantly good, but never exceptional.

What I mean to say is that it has been a reliable workhorse at every type of track it has been at so far. Surely that must give Ferrari a lot of confidence to chase pure performance across the board, rather than widening the setup window or ironing out fundamental flaws like tyre wear, which may only benefit them at certain tracks.

Then again, we said the same things about Aston Martin last season because the car seemed to be such a reliable platform and the package seemed to be really conservative. Everyone believed that it would be an easy platform to upgrade and squeeze performance out of, which turned out to be far from the truth.

Still I believe that cars that tend to be solid and predictable everywhere are generally easier to upgrade than temperamental cars like the W13 or F1-75 (post TD39).

dia6olo
dia6olo
2
Joined: 14 Feb 2024, 17:18

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

I really don't understand all these comments saying McLaren have gained 4 tenths.
Not even McLaren can say that based on one weekend, a sprint weekend at that and on a less than representative track.
What they have really gained will only be revealed over a number of weekends.
Them being x amount behind RBR or Ferrari then being x amount in front as measured in Miami means nothing.

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
5
Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

dia6olo wrote:
10 May 2024, 23:13
I really don't understand all these comments saying McLaren have gained 4 tenths.
Not even McLaren can say that based on one weekend, a sprint weekend at that and on a less than representative track.
What they have really gained will only be revealed over a number of weekends.
Them being x amount behind RBR or Ferrari then being x amount in front as measured in Miami means nothing.
The same reason people bought the idea that the Ferrari upgrade would be worth 2.5 tenths - one person on the internet said so. So it must be true!