2024 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, May 17 - 19

[101FlyingDutchman]

McLaren were the fastest but whoever was on pole would've won the race.

Mclaren was like a rocket ship in the DRS zone when overtaking slower cars, but somehow I find Max was playing too safe in this race after building some margin over Lando in the beginning. Perhaps everyone was thinking about SC and tire management

I wish more people would watch the presser after the race.
Lando was quoted saying that without Max tow in quali they would probably be 1-2 (without PIA penalty).
Hard tyre was problematic for both NOR and VER. VER could never get it in operating window and was driving on glass. They need to review their setup during the weekend.
NOR couldn’t get the tyre in and hence LEC was all over the back. Then finally it somehow got there which was a surprise to NOR too.

Eg driver made the difference this weekend in finishing positions. Fine margins matter when on track the differential isn’t there to overtake.

[TFSA]

I’m judging nothing. I gave you data to show Lewis went multiple times against world champion team mates and came up on top.

Max hasn’t.

If that burns you it’s only because it’s true.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Winning a WDC in F1 is not an indicator of quality. All it requires to win a WDC is:

• Getting the fastest car
• Being faster than your teammate
• Being good enough to not put in in the wall every weekend

Case in point: Vettel is a 4 time WDC, yet he lost to Ricciardi in 2014, got his ass absolutely handed to him by Charles Leclerc in Ferrari in 2020, and barely outpaced Stroll in Aston Martin and had a bad tendency to spin his car. It's probably an unpopular opinion, but to me, Vettel is a vastly overrated driver. He wasn't bad, and had his moments of brilliance (including his first win in Torro Rosso), but his 4 championships came on record of him getting a good (sometimes great) car that suited him and simply being better than Webber.

And the same can be said for many of Lewis teammates. Rosberg got him one year with some luck and decided to retire. Button became WC because he was lucky to get the fastest car at the start of the 2009 season, and it was just enough to clinch the drivers title. And I'm not saying they are bad drivers, but them getting some lucky WDCs really doesn't mean they're automatically stronger than drivers like Ricciardo (who beat Vettel) or Sainz, who both have been teammates with Max. Many drivers on the grid who have never won a WDC can be argued to be better than some of the former WDCs, including Leclerc, Norris, Piastri, maybe even Sainz.

And just to be clear: I'm not arguing that Lewis hasn't had stronger teammates than Max (i believe he has). But I'm tired of the WDC argument. It's NOT the stamp of approval that some people seem to think it is, in a sport where machine and luck plays a big part of your success.

On that note, Leclerc vs. Hamilton is gonna be really interesting next season. I can't wait to see who's gonna come out on top.

[CHT]

McLaren were the fastest but whoever was on pole would've won the race.

Mclaren was like a rocket ship in the DRS zone when overtaking slower cars, but somehow I find Max was playing too safe in this race after building some margin over Lando in the beginning. Perhaps everyone was thinking about SC and tire management

I wish more people would watch the presser after the race.
Lando was quoted saying that without Max tow in quali they would probably be 1-2 (without PIA penalty).
Hard tyre was problematic for both NOR and VER. VER could never get it in operating window and was driving on glass. They need to review their setup during the weekend.
NOR couldn’t get the tyre in and hence LEC was all over the back. Then finally it somehow got there which was a surprise to NOR too.

Eg driver made the difference this weekend in finishing positions. Fine margins matter when on track the differential isn’t there to overtake.

I am looking at the race itself and how quickly Max was able to pull away from Lando after the start, to around 5 to 6 secs and then it remain around there. Not sure due to Lando going quicker or Max just nursing the tyres on medium

[Dee]

What about when Lewis had Nico in the car or when he fought evenly with Alonso? Those don’t count I imagine? What about Button who he beat in 2010 and 2012 despite having 5 DNFs against just 2? And now Russell who he’s even with despite being double his age?

And folks have the courage to say that pointing out how Max’s fan live on the moon is unfair…

Why are you questioning Lewis titles? I just showed you how unfairly you were judging Max. If you want to judge Lewis other titles with the same bias, then go ahead.

I’m judging nothing. I gave you data to show Lewis went multiple times against world champion team mates and came up on top.

Max hasn’t.

If that burns you it’s only because it’s true.

There’s a world of difference from pointing this out and thinking that Max is mid, something I’ve never said.

Max went against Lewis in equal cars and would have beaten him by 50 plus points if not for some bad luck so nothing burns me about Lewis's titles.

[Cs98]

That’s in response to reactions that seem like Max won a race with Williams.

He started on pole, some folks said he was going to be on pole even without the tow because he did a 23.4 before.

Comfortably got out of DRS range in 1 lap, then took off until the last 10-15 laps where Lando caught up but had absolutely no chance to overtake.

Norris had same pressure from Leclerc, Leclerc had from Piastri and Piastri had on Sainz.

MCL had Norris who nursed his tires and Piastri who burned them quick. Max drove the usual great race but he wouldn’t have won without a great car.

That’s about it. RBR still best car of the lot, MCL close 2nd and Ferrari close 3rd.

I dunno, I'd absolutely be inclined to say that Max made the difference this weekend. And that if you switched cars between Norris and Max, that Max would have dominated in the Mclaren. I really do think Red Bull was probably only 2nd fastest car here overall. And yes, I do think Max is a step ahead of basically the whole rest of the grid to achieve results like this.

It's like people forget that Max was not always in a dominant car. He'd won lots of races before Red Bull became class of the field in 2022, and I'd argue won the championship in 2021 in a car slightly weaker than the Mercedes over the whole season against a driver many consider to be the best ever.

He's not a god, but he's absolutely an alien level talent.

No driver is quicker than the car can go. No driver. Ever. Never. Ever. Physics works that way.

This is a red herring. The car can always go faster than what a human does with it. They never reach the full potential of the car. The best driver is simply the one who reaches the closest to the limit the most consistently.

[venkyhere]

Maybe redbull struggles more on the harder compound. Everyone was so sure it was damage that held max back in Miami. I think today proves different. Perhaps in their quest to get pole every race they dont optimize for the harder compounds. Just a guess.

Right. Whichever is the H tyre (C3 or C2 or C1) on a weekend, their old tactic of not running them and "guessing" how it will suit their race setup has been going wrong. Which probably points to a narrower working window for the RB20 than the RB19 from last year. This is my guess.

[Mosin123]

Just switching it around because what you have just said describes Lewis championships when Bottas was in the car. Now you are saying the same thing but it's about Max. When you try to discredit Max, you discredit Hamilton achievements as well.

What about when Lewis had Nico in the car or when he fought evenly with Alonso? Those don’t count I imagine? What about Button who he beat in 2010 and 2012 despite having 5 DNFs against just 2? And now Russell who he’s even with despite being double his age?

And folks have the courage to say that pointing out how Max’s fan live on the moon is unfair…

You'd be living on the moon too if Charles was a 3 time WDC with 60 wins and redefining the record books every other weekend At 26 Verstappen has already established himself as an all time great. He will probably have done more from 2021-2024 than the likes of Charles, Lando and George will accomplish over their entire careers combined, and we know those guys are super talented. He has simply set himself apart and there's no reason we should sit by idly pretending it's not happening. Offending the sensibilities of some haters who can't handle or recognize greatness when it's right in front of their noses is par for the course.

If he was against some one better than Perez, i could agree with you, stick Norris in the car next to him, or LH, ohh wait... he doesnt want a challange. Max's own words

[Xyz22]

His team mate is an absolute joke and he would have won WCC last year as well, no way to tell how good Lewis is by comparison so everything now mixes Lewis and car and we do know that car is absolutely alien, it’s not as dominant as last year but the acceleration on start, even when Lewis doesn’t have the fastest reaction, traction, high cornering performance, top speed, are all things that the car has and allows and they are again among the top 2-3 cars in history.

Just switching it around because what you have just said describes Lewis championships when Bottas was in the car. Now you are saying the same thing but it's about Max. When you try to discredit Max, you discredit Hamilton achievements as well.

What about when Lewis had Nico in the car or when he fought evenly with Alonso? Those don’t count I imagine? What about Button who he beat in 2010 and 2012 despite having 5 DNFs against just 2? And now Russell who he’s even with despite being double his age?

And folks have the courage to say that pointing out how Max’s fan live on the moon is unfair…

Tbh both Hamilton and Verstappen die hards have always been completely out of control.
Hamilton fans were overhyping Bottas to the moon back in the days to push the narrative they wanted.

It's just like this with drivers.
Max was superb this weekend just like RB as a Team was. They have the best car by a massive margin (still smaller than last year where Mazzacane today would have looked a professional driver) and even in a difficult weekend they were able to fix some of the issues and provide Max a car that was competitive in both quali and the race. In the first stint the RB 20 was in another league.

RB will still win like 20 races this season.

[Silent Storm]

RB20 was in another league?

[Cs98]

What about when Lewis had Nico in the car or when he fought evenly with Alonso? Those don’t count I imagine? What about Button who he beat in 2010 and 2012 despite having 5 DNFs against just 2? And now Russell who he’s even with despite being double his age?

And folks have the courage to say that pointing out how Max’s fan live on the moon is unfair…

You'd be living on the moon too if Charles was a 3 time WDC with 60 wins and redefining the record books every other weekend At 26 Verstappen has already established himself as an all time great. He will probably have done more from 2021-2024 than the likes of Charles, Lando and George will accomplish over their entire careers combined, and we know those guys are super talented. He has simply set himself apart and there's no reason we should sit by idly pretending it's not happening. Offending the sensibilities of some haters who can't handle or recognize greatness when it's right in front of their noses is par for the course.

If he was against some one better than Perez, i could agree with you, stick Norris in the car next to him, or LH, ohh wait... he doesnt want a challange. Max's own words

There would be another excuse, there always is. That's the magic of detracting. Remember now, Perez only became "awful" after being consistently trounced by Verstappen.

But sure, I'd like to see Norris in a RB too, it could work on a personal level, but Norris didn't want to go up against Max when he had the offer. Says enough.

[Cs98]

RB20 was in another league?

We saw it all weekend On rails, gravel rails.

No but seriously, people loved to complain about the domination of RB before, but now that the competitive picture clearly has shifted and we suddenly have cars like the McLaren and Ferrari being on the pace, now they want to pretend nothing has changed. They want competitive parity with none of the expectations that come with that.

[organic]

All max does is race. Was the most dominant karting career we have ever seen, his dad raised him (although with questionable parenting) to do one thing which is win races. He got into F1 earlier than any other driver because top teams were clamouring after his signature. Toto laments about missing out every other week.

To me it shouldn't be surprising that he is this dominant force. The writing has been on the wall for a long time

Very difficult to compare with Hamilton though, especially because ham's performance level fluctuates so much (the biggest mark against him imo)

[Sevach]

Wild performance swings in this one.
Max looks dominant on the medium, Lando looks vulnerable to Charles.
Early in the hard stint, Max looks to be cruising, Charles is faster than Lando and catching him.

Charles run out of steam(that one is kinda easier to understand, he pushed and worn out his tires), but at the same time the cruising Max also runs out of tires and now suddenly the guy who was seemingly the slowest becomes the fastest.

Just Pirelli things.

[organic]

Wild performance swings in this one.
Max looks dominant on the medium, Lando looks vulnerable to Charles.
Early in the hard stint, Max looks to be cruising, Charles is faster than Lando and catching him.

Charles run out of steam(that one is kinda easier to understand, he pushed and worn out his tires), but at the same time the cruising Max also runs out of tires and now suddenly the guy who was seemingly the slowest becomes the fastest.

Just Pirelli things.

Max didn't run out of tyres but the tyres got cold, temps fell out of window and he lost grip. Norris on the other hand started hard stint slowly and brought the hards in gently.

I think RB have clear advantage in terms of being able to push a tyre harder without it overheating. But they seem to be vulnerable when overheating isn't a problem

[Mosin123]

You'd be living on the moon too if Charles was a 3 time WDC with 60 wins and redefining the record books every other weekend At 26 Verstappen has already established himself as an all time great. He will probably have done more from 2021-2024 than the likes of Charles, Lando and George will accomplish over their entire careers combined, and we know those guys are super talented. He has simply set himself apart and there's no reason we should sit by idly pretending it's not happening. Offending the sensibilities of some haters who can't handle or recognize greatness when it's right in front of their noses is par for the course.

If he was against some one better than Perez, i could agree with you, stick Norris in the car next to him, or LH, ohh wait... he doesnt want a challange. Max's own words

There would be another excuse, there always is. That's the magic of detracting. Remember now, Perez only became "awful" after being consistently trounced by Verstappen.

But sure, I'd like to see Norris in a RB too, it could work on a personal level, but Norris didn't want to go up against Max when he had the offer. Says enough.

He was on his way out of f1 before Redbull gave him a 2nd driver seat, no body expected Redbull to sign him. no body thought he was good enough, they still dont.