2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[CouncilorIrissa]

China and Imola are fair but Lando does not win in Miami without the safety car.

And yea, it's fair to enjoy the increased competition right now, there's an element of me that feels that too, but at the same time, being the leftout third wheel in that group doesn't feel great, either. :p

I agree. The novelty of "we finished only 8 seconds behind the leader" will quickly wear off if we start finishing 4-5 every second race (and that's what I personally feel will happen in Monaco and Canada. Barcelona looks like the best chance to score a podium, maybe even a double podium).

[Seanspeed]

China and Imola are fair but Lando does not win in Miami without the safety car.

And yea, it's fair to enjoy the increased competition right now, there's an element of me that feels that too, but at the same time, being the leftout third wheel in that group doesn't feel great, either. :p

I agree. The novelty of "we finished only 8 seconds behind the leader" will quickly wear off if we start finishing 4-5 every second race.

Yes, exactly that.

[dia6olo]

China and Imola are fair but Lando does not win in Miami without the safety car.

I'm merely talking about competitiveness, not results.

Mclaren were the fastest car in Miami(on Sunday), and not by some tiny amount, either.

Similarly, Ferrari got quite lucky with Piastri's penalty this past Saturday, because I dont think Leclerc is on the podium without it. We could see quite clearly the Mclaren was the more competitive car, both on Saturday and Sunday this time.

And yea, it's fair to enjoy the increased competition right now, there's an element of me that feels that too, but at the same time, being the leftout third wheel in that group doesn't feel great, either. :p

It's Ferrari that are sitting second in the constructors not McLaren and it's by a healthy margin.
Just because things haven't gone as well in the last 2 races and McLaren have made significant improvements, the margins are very tight between the leading 3 cars, the gaps can easily swing again, in fact i'd be very surprised if they don't.

[CouncilorIrissa]

It's Ferrari that are sitting second in the constructors not McLaren and it's by a healthy margin.
Just because things haven't gone as well in the last 2 races and McLaren have made significant improvements, the margins are very tight between the leading 3 cars, the gaps can easily swing again, in fact i'd be very surprised if they don't.

That's mostly because MCL failed to maximize their car in the first two races, whereas Ferrari did an amazing job maximizing theirs. Their car (MCL) had legitimiate issues with wear, sure, but still.

[dia6olo]

It's Ferrari that are sitting second in the constructors not McLaren and it's by a healthy margin.
Just because things haven't gone as well in the last 2 races and McLaren have made significant improvements, the margins are very tight between the leading 3 cars, the gaps can easily swing again, in fact i'd be very surprised if they don't.

That's mostly because MCL failed to maximize their car in the first two races, whereas Ferrari did an amazing job maximizing theirs. Their car (MCL) had legitimiate issues with wear, sure, but still.

Ifs and buts, the fact is it's Ferrari that are sitting second in the constructors with a healthy margin from the third team.
And while they are currently looking third best, it can very quickly swing back especially considering the small margins.

[Space-heat]

China and Imola are fair but Lando does not win in Miami without the safety car.

I'm merely talking about competitiveness, not results.

Mclaren were the fastest car in Miami(on Sunday), and not by some tiny amount, either.

Yes on Sunday, but where were they in quali in Miami (https://www.formula1.com/en/results.htm ... fying.html)? It looks like Mclaren was set up for race pace and the SC eliminated his positional disadvantage from quali. Lando after qualification in Miami was saying he wished they could have undone the overnight changes. His better race pace got him an +7.612 second gap to Max at the end, 9.9 s to Charles.



Without the safety car, he would have pitted and come out 8s behind Max, 5.5s behind Charles, 4s to Piastri and neck and neck with Sainz. He was competitive because of the Safety car.

For sure Charles may have been P4 without Piastri's penalty but we don't know if Imola was a Mclaren suited circuit or if they are strong everywhere now.

I agree. The novelty of "we finished only 8 seconds behind the leader" will quickly wear off if we start finishing 4-5 every second race (and that's what I personally feel will happen in Monaco and Canada. Barcelona looks like the best chance to score a podium, maybe even a double podium).

Mclaren were stronger in Imola but we have to give Ferrari the chance to show until after Barcelona if they can extract more from the upgrade or if it preforms better on certain tracks. I can not understand the need to make sweeping judgements, the update has had one race. Charles is P2 in the drivers, Ferrari are P2 in the constructors and they have closed the gap to Max and Red Bull.

If Ferrari are behind Mclaren in the constructors after Barcelona feel free to burn it all down but at least give them a chance to fail.

[Sphere3758]

It's Ferrari that are sitting second in the constructors not McLaren and it's by a healthy margin.
Just because things haven't gone as well in the last 2 races and McLaren have made significant improvements, the margins are very tight between the leading 3 cars, the gaps can easily swing again, in fact i'd be very surprised if they don't.

That's mostly because MCL failed to maximize their car in the first two races, whereas Ferrari did an amazing job maximizing theirs. Their car (MCL) had legitimiate issues with wear, sure, but still.

Ferrari definitely did not maximize the first 2 races.

Bahrain : Without Charles brake issue, it would be a 2-4 instead of a 3-4
Jeddah: Carlos would have surely scored more than Bearman

[MattLightBlue]

Something with McLaren performance in Miami and Imola doesn’t add up, even if they seemed very fast.
In Miami, they even tried medium tyres in Q3 because they were lost, then they showed great race pace (with low fuel).
In Imola, after the pit stop they seemed not confident at all of their pace with hards, and after 15 laps tyres went into optimal window and outperformed all.
I wonder if we will see some issues on their side on higher deg tracks.

[bananapeel23]

China and Imola are fair but Lando does not win in Miami without the safety car.

And yea, it's fair to enjoy the increased competition right now, there's an element of me that feels that too, but at the same time, being the leftout third wheel in that group doesn't feel great, either. :p

I agree. The novelty of "we finished only 8 seconds behind the leader" will quickly wear off if we start finishing 4-5 every second race (and that's what I personally feel will happen in Monaco and Canada. Barcelona looks like the best chance to score a podium, maybe even a double podium).

"Best chance to score a podium"

Holy pessimism. I'd say it's maybe the best chance to score a win, while podiums are nearly a given at this point. Perez isn't going to be bothering Leclerc with the pace being this close, so it's Leclerc vs Piastri at most races for P3, with Piastri still somewhat lacking in his tyre management skills I'd argue that any permutation of a VER-NOR-LEC podium is very likely at all of the upcoming races.

Also I would NOT underestimate the ability of Leclerc to absolutely dominate Monaco qualifying. The SF-23 was like half a second off the pace on average in quali in the first half of 2023, despite that Leclerc was within a tenth of pole in Monaco. The 2021 Ferrari was also pretty middling, yet Leclerc took pole in Monaco. The 2022 Ferrari was by far the best car in Monaco, but Leclerc was on track for a 0.8-1 second gap to the fastest non-Ferrari until Perez crashed out.

Leclerc is a beast on street tracks, while Verstappen and Norris are not known for their qualifying on street tracks. The Ferrari also seems to handle bumps and kerbs better than other cars. Personally I see Leclerc as the clear favourite for pole in Monaco, even if the car lacks a tenth or two of potential compared to McLaren or Red Bull.

Now double podiums are a different deal entirely. Sainz does appear to be in something of a slump right now, and a double podium does seem kind of unlikely currently without some good luck.

[Xyz22]

Something with McLaren performance in Miami and Imola doesn’t add up, even if they seemed very fast.
In Miami, they even tried medium tyres in Q3 because they were lost, then they showed great race pace (with low fuel).
In Imola, after the pit stop they seemed not confident at all of their pace with hards, and after 15 laps tyres went into optimal window and outperformed all.
I wonder if we will see some issues on their side on higher deg tracks.

Unfortunately, Ferrari didn't put enough pressure on McL in the second stint. They waited too much with the pit stops, probably scared of losing time with Perez. Norris had a very big buffer to Leclerc so he has been able to manage the first part of the stint to attack in the second one.

[MattLightBlue]

Something with McLaren performance in Miami and Imola doesn’t add up, even if they seemed very fast.
In Miami, they even tried medium tyres in Q3 because they were lost, then they showed great race pace (with low fuel).
In Imola, after the pit stop they seemed not confident at all of their pace with hards, and after 15 laps tyres went into optimal window and outperformed all.
I wonder if we will see some issues on their side on higher deg tracks.

Unfortunately, Ferrari didn't put enough pressure on McL in the second stint. They waited too much with the pit stops, probably scared of losing time with Perez. Norris had a very big buffer to Leclerc so he has been able to manage the first part of the stint to attack in the second one.

Norris seemed genuinely worried during the first laps with hards though. I agree Ferrari waited too much for the pit stops.

[franbatista123]

And yea, it's fair to enjoy the increased competition right now, there's an element of me that feels that too, but at the same time, being the leftout third wheel in that group doesn't feel great, either. :p

I agree. The novelty of "we finished only 8 seconds behind the leader" will quickly wear off if we start finishing 4-5 every second race (and that's what I personally feel will happen in Monaco and Canada. Barcelona looks like the best chance to score a podium, maybe even a double podium).

"Best chance to score a podium"

Holy pessimism. I'd say it's maybe the best chance to score a win, while podiums are nearly a given at this point. Perez isn't going to be bothering Leclerc with the pace being this close, so it's Leclerc vs Piastri at most races for P3, with Piastri still somewhat lacking in his tyre management skills I'd argue that any permutation of a VER-NOR-LEC podium is very likely at all of the upcoming races.

Also I would NOT underestimate the ability of Leclerc to absolutely dominate Monaco qualifying. The SF-23 was like half a second off the pace on average in quali in the first half of 2023, despite that Leclerc was within a tenth of pole in Monaco. The 2021 Ferrari was also pretty middling, yet Leclerc took pole in Monaco. The 2022 Ferrari was by far the best car in Monaco, but Leclerc was on track for a 0.8-1 second gap to the fastest non-Ferrari until Perez crashed out.

Leclerc is a beast on street tracks, while Verstappen and Norris are not known for their qualifying on street tracks. The Ferrari also seems to handle bumps and kerbs better than other cars. Personally I see Leclerc as the clear favourite for pole in Monaco, even if the car lacks a tenth or two of potential compared to McLaren or Red Bull.

Now double podiums are a different deal entirely. Sainz does appear to be in something of a slump right now, and a double podium does seem kind of unlikely currently without some good luck.

I agree with you on Leclerc, i think the biggest argument against it is that this year's SF24 has some issues warming up the tires which has caused issues in quali compared to previous years. On the other hand, there's barely any deg in Monaco so you can go in Q3 and do a few laps just to warm up the tires. Red Bull is the strongest in slow corners which will be challenging.

[Xyz22]

Something with McLaren performance in Miami and Imola doesn’t add up, even if they seemed very fast.
In Miami, they even tried medium tyres in Q3 because they were lost, then they showed great race pace (with low fuel).
In Imola, after the pit stop they seemed not confident at all of their pace with hards, and after 15 laps tyres went into optimal window and outperformed all.
I wonder if we will see some issues on their side on higher deg tracks.

Unfortunately, Ferrari didn't put enough pressure on McL in the second stint. They waited too much with the pit stops, probably scared of losing time with Perez. Norris had a very big buffer to Leclerc so he has been able to manage the first part of the stint to attack in the second one.

Norris seemed genuinely worried during the first laps with hards though. I agree Ferrari waited too much for the pit stops.

McL had an issue with the rears overheating in the first stint because Norris couldn't manage the pace there as Leclerc was just behind.

Ferrari needs to be more aggressive. The strategy wasn't a disaster, but far from optimal. With races like this one where the margins are small every decision has a significant impact.

The problem in quali is not related to tyre warm up only. Leclerc was suffering that specific issue more than Sainz, but he has put a lot of work in understanding what was wrong and that paid off. This doesn't mean the car is now quick in qualifying. At this point is quite clear that the chassis is not as good as the others in terms of extracting the full potential of the soft tyres over one lap with minimal amount of fuel. In fact, Leclerc and Sainz have yet to make a "perfect" lap this season.

My personal opinion is that is quite "easy" to get near the limit with the SF 24, but is really hard to get the absolute 100% and this is highlighted by the small improvements from Q2 to Q3 compared to last year and 2022. The drivers are not improving on a consistent basis, which probably means they can't find the grip they are expecting from the tyres.

[DoctorRadio]

Unfortunately, Ferrari didn't put enough pressure on McL in the second stint. They waited too much with the pit stops, probably scared of losing time with Perez. Norris had a very big buffer to Leclerc so he has been able to manage the first part of the stint to attack in the second one.

Norris seemed genuinely worried during the first laps with hards though. I agree Ferrari waited too much for the pit stops.

McL had an issue with the rears overheating in the first stint because Norris couldn't manage the pace there as Leclerc was just behind.

Ferrari needs to be more aggressive. The strategy wasn't a disaster, but far from optimal. With races like this one where the margins are small every decision has a significant impact.

The problem in quali is not related to tyre warm up only. Leclerc was suffering that specific issue more than Sainz, but he has put a lot of work in understanding what was wrong and that paid off. This doesn't mean the car is now quick in qualifying. At this point is quite clear that the chassis is not as good as the others in terms of extracting the full potential of the soft tyres over one lap with minimal amount of fuel. In fact, Leclerc and Sainz have yet to make a "perfect" lap this season.

My personal opinion is that is quite "easy" to get near the limit with the SF 24, but is really hard to get the absolute 100% and this is highlighted by the small improvements from Q2 to Q3 compared to last year and 2022. The drivers are not improving on a consistent basis, which probably means they can't find the grip they are expecting from the tyres.

Correct.
It’s possible that if they were more aggressive with the first stop as you say, Norris is forced to push and cooks his rear tyres (he said in the press conference that all the “slow” laps at the beginning of the stint were entirely dedicated to nursing the rear tyres, to have them later on); would he lose them completely so that Leclerc passes him?
Unlikely, but certainly it would have been another end of the race and who knows, maybe Mclaren would have looked less strong comparatively.

[CouncilorIrissa]

Yes on Sunday, but where were they in quali in Miami (https://www.formula1.com/en/results.htm ... fying.html)? It looks like Mclaren was set up for race pace and the SC eliminated his positional disadvantage from quali. Lando after qualification in Miami was saying he wished they could have undone the overnight changes. His better race pace got him an +7.612 second gap to Max at the end, 9.9 s to Charles.

There were fooling around with mediums at the time when the track was at its quickest in Q3.

If Ferrari are behind Mclaren in the constructors after Barcelona feel free to burn it all down but at least give them a chance to fail.

I don't want to burn anything down, if anything I think that the team has done a good job with the upgrades, it's just that the competition has done an outrageous one.

Bahrain : Without Charles brake issue, it would be a 2-4 instead of a 3-4

That's so not guaranteed.

Also I would NOT underestimate the ability of Leclerc to absolutely dominate Monaco qualifying. The SF-23 was like half a second off the pace on average in quali in the first half of 2023, despite that Leclerc was within a tenth of pole in Monaco. The 2021 Ferrari was also pretty middling, yet Leclerc took pole in Monaco. The 2022 Ferrari was by far the best car in Monaco, but Leclerc was on track for a 0.8-1 second gap to the fastest non-Ferrari until Perez crashed out.

All three were traction monsters, which the SF-24 is very much not.

edit: I can't find the link now, but I think it was Sainz who said that the upgrades won't help much at Monaco.