2024 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, May 17 - 19

[ringo]

There would be another excuse, there always is. That's the magic of detracting. Remember now, Perez only became "awful" after being consistently trounced by Verstappen.

But sure, I'd like to see Norris in a RB too, it could work on a personal level, but Norris didn't want to go up against Max when he had the offer. Says enough.

Perez was dropped by Mclaren. So make of that what you will. He was also dropped by a lower standard team, Force India.
None of Lewis teammates were at a decline. All were on the rise and considered prodigies or champions.
Just saying.
I suspect quite a few fans are not watching F-1 before they hybrid era to get an appreciation of certain things.
Even Vettel, though I am not a fan of his, I have to respect his skill an achievement. Vettel at 2014 and at Ferrari was not the same driver. He still did wonders in the Torro Rosso and Redbulls he won with. After being trounced by Ricciardo, he should have stayed another year to adapt.

We don't need to peddle bad information Ringo. Perez had a contract with Aston Martin until 2022 but was backstabbed when the team decided they wanted Vettel at the end of 2020, probably thinking he was something he no longer was. $troll obviously wasn't going to be asked to move despite being thoroughly outperformed two years in a row by Perez. And all this coming right on the back of Perez's best season in F1, being best of the rest in P4 despite missing two races and beating the likes of Albon in the RB. Also concluded a 6 year streak of Perez beating his teammate every year. Hulkenberg twice, Ocon twice, Stroll twice. It was a natural decision for RB to pick him up and people at the time were talking about the injustice were he not to be on the grid for 2021. No, he was never considered elite, but he developed into a well above average F1 driver with a well above average F1 career, only considered "awful" by people who want to detract from Verstappen.

You are right in that he is average. And that's my point. He did not develop into anything better than he was. He just got a better car.
I don't think there should be any undermining of Bottas if we look on Perez's career.
Bottas still has his reputation intact. Hasnt been beaten apart from Lewis and was a rising star. And will take his speed to Williams next year.

As for the race management to support my previous points and to kind of paint a beautful picture of Norris' sublime race management here a nice article on him describing how he managed to find pace on the hards.
https://www.racefans.net/2024/05/20/no ... stappen/

I think he may have said too much, but it's refreshing to get this kind of insight. Drivers and teams can be intentionally vague these days. But here he did not blame the car. He knew he had to make adjustments to find the best compromise on the hards. If Charles kept up the pressure, Norris may not have found the right balance on the hards.

[Cs98]

Perez was dropped by Mclaren. So make of that what you will. He was also dropped by a lower standard team, Force India.
None of Lewis teammates were at a decline. All were on the rise and considered prodigies or champions.
Just saying.
I suspect quite a few fans are not watching F-1 before they hybrid era to get an appreciation of certain things.
Even Vettel, though I am not a fan of his, I have to respect his skill an achievement. Vettel at 2014 and at Ferrari was not the same driver. He still did wonders in the Torro Rosso and Redbulls he won with. After being trounced by Ricciardo, he should have stayed another year to adapt.

We don't need to peddle bad information Ringo. Perez had a contract with Aston Martin until 2022 but was backstabbed when the team decided they wanted Vettel at the end of 2020, probably thinking he was something he no longer was. $troll obviously wasn't going to be asked to move despite being thoroughly outperformed two years in a row by Perez. And all this coming right on the back of Perez's best season in F1, being best of the rest in P4 despite missing two races and beating the likes of Albon in the RB. Also concluded a 6 year streak of Perez beating his teammate every year. Hulkenberg twice, Ocon twice, Stroll twice. It was a natural decision for RB to pick him up and people at the time were talking about the injustice were he not to be on the grid for 2021. No, he was never considered elite, but he developed into a well above average F1 driver with a well above average F1 career, only considered "awful" by people who want to detract from Verstappen.

You are right in that he is average. And that's my point. He did not develop into anything better than he was. He just got a better car.
I don't think there should be any undermining of Bottas if we look on Perez's career.
Bottas still has his reputation intact. Hasnt been beaten apart from Lewis and was a rising star. And will take his speed to Williams next year.

Bottas is another above average but never elite driver. He's the blueprint for nr 2s. Qualify decent, pose no threat in the race.

[V12-POWER]

I have a sneaking suspicion that you would like drag racing or perhaps oval racing? Perhaps you would also be interested in bringing the old AVUS track back to F1?

what’s wrong with chicane-less monza?

It killed a whole lot of people?

In 1950 maybe. wouldn’t kill a fly with todays excessive safety standards

[Just_a_fan]

what’s wrong with chicane-less monza?

It killed a whole lot of people?

In 1950 maybe. wouldn’t kill a fly with todays excessive safety standards

2000, actually. A marshal was killed at the 2000 Italian GP.

As for cars, it's 1978 for Ronnie Peterson and that was with chicanes. Without chicanes, it was Jochen Rindt in 1970. There have been a number of motorbike fatalities in the 1990s and obviously all with chicanes.

Excessive safety? So you want people to be hurt or at very real risk of being hurt? Perhaps you should entertain yourself by putting yourself at risk rather than wish others to do so for your entertainment.

I've watched drivers die over the years. It's never entertaining.

[AR3-GP]

Perez was dropped by Mclaren. So make of that what you will. He was also dropped by a lower standard team, Force India.
None of Lewis teammates were at a decline. All were on the rise and considered prodigies or champions.
Just saying.
I suspect quite a few fans are not watching F-1 before they hybrid era to get an appreciation of certain things.
Even Vettel, though I am not a fan of his, I have to respect his skill an achievement. Vettel at 2014 and at Ferrari was not the same driver. He still did wonders in the Torro Rosso and Redbulls he won with. After being trounced by Ricciardo, he should have stayed another year to adapt.

We don't need to peddle bad information Ringo. Perez had a contract with Aston Martin until 2022 but was backstabbed when the team decided they wanted Vettel at the end of 2020, probably thinking he was something he no longer was. $troll obviously wasn't going to be asked to move despite being thoroughly outperformed two years in a row by Perez. And all this coming right on the back of Perez's best season in F1, being best of the rest in P4 despite missing two races and beating the likes of Albon in the RB. Also concluded a 6 year streak of Perez beating his teammate every year. Hulkenberg twice, Ocon twice, Stroll twice. It was a natural decision for RB to pick him up and people at the time were talking about the injustice were he not to be on the grid for 2021. No, he was never considered elite, but he developed into a well above average F1 driver with a well above average F1 career, only considered "awful" by people who want to detract from Verstappen.

You are right in that he is average. And that's my point. He did not develop into anything better than he was. He just got a better car.
I don't think there should be any undermining of Bottas if we look on Perez's career.
Bottas still has his reputation intact. Hasnt been beaten apart from Lewis and was a rising star. And will take his speed to Williams next year.

The other day you told us that there are no skill differences between drivers and that no corners or tracks need skill over another driver to make a difference:

Not much skill exists relatively amongst the drivers. They all can do the same things on track given enough simulator time.
Only the really bad drivers show a skill deficit.
As things stand these days its just down to how much practice and learning nuances with setup and lines and working through that with the team. If a driver falls short they always "look into it to understand why" after each session. The sport is extremely scientific and procedural where "skill" need only be a prerequisite to enter the sport. But all 20 drivers have it.
So I do not consider any track or corner needing relative skill over another driver to make a difference. A driver may need less laps to get the optimum lap time in qualy but 1 out of 20 times all of them can achieve the same exact lap time all things being equal.

Today Perez is "average"...Having an ulterior motive that one seeks to manifest at every opportunity can often lead to contradictions of thought appearing across seemingly unrelated conversations.

[Big Tea]

Perez was dropped by Mclaren. So make of that what you will. He was also dropped by a lower standard team, Force India.
None of Lewis teammates were at a decline. All were on the rise and considered prodigies or champions.
Just saying.
I suspect quite a few fans are not watching F-1 before they hybrid era to get an appreciation of certain things.
Even Vettel, though I am not a fan of his, I have to respect his skill an achievement. Vettel at 2014 and at Ferrari was not the same driver. He still did wonders in the Torro Rosso and Redbulls he won with. After being trounced by Ricciardo, he should have stayed another year to adapt.

We don't need to peddle bad information Ringo. Perez had a contract with Aston Martin until 2022 but was backstabbed when the team decided they wanted Vettel at the end of 2020, probably thinking he was something he no longer was. $troll obviously wasn't going to be asked to move despite being thoroughly outperformed two years in a row by Perez. And all this coming right on the back of Perez's best season in F1, being best of the rest in P4 despite missing two races and beating the likes of Albon in the RB. Also concluded a 6 year streak of Perez beating his teammate every year. Hulkenberg twice, Ocon twice, Stroll twice. It was a natural decision for RB to pick him up and people at the time were talking about the injustice were he not to be on the grid for 2021. No, he was never considered elite, but he developed into a well above average F1 driver with a well above average F1 career, only considered "awful" by people who want to detract from Verstappen.

You are right in that he is average. And that's my point. He did not develop into anything better than he was. He just got a better car.
I don't think there should be any undermining of Bottas if we look on Perez's career.
Bottas still has his reputation intact. Hasnt been beaten apart from Lewis and was a rising star. And will take his speed to Williams next year.

As for the race management to support my previous points and to kind of paint a beautful picture of Norris' sublime race management here a nice article on him describing how he managed to find pace on the hards.
https://www.racefans.net/2024/05/20/no ... stappen/

I think he may have said too much, but it's refreshing to get this kind of insight. Drivers and teams can be intentionally vague these days. But here he did not blame the car. He knew he had to make adjustments to find the best compromise on the hards. If Charles kept up the pressure, Norris may not have found the right balance on the hards.

Any one who rides horses will understand when I make the comparison. You can have a "nag" who does the job day in day out and you would trust with your kids, or a thoroughbred who would give it a thrashing over any course, but you do not go out alone as you are likely to get some comeuppance.
Same thing with motor cycles with enough grunt to break traction mid curve. It may not be when you want it.

What you see is what you get is often better than clench your arse cheeks and hang on.

[Sieper]

I found the Norris race reaction interview quite honoust and insightful. You have to be a bit brave to do that. That’s is one of the things I like about Norris.

[Seanspeed]

His team mate is an absolute joke

In no world is Perez an 'absolute joke'.

It's the mark of the greats that they make otherwise good drivers look ordinary/bad.

[Sieper]

Absolute joke; looked it up in the dictionary:

If you say that something or someone is a joke, you think they are ridiculous and do not deserve respect.

And absolute;

Absolute means total and complete.

Perez is a solid midfield driver. Not really a good qualifier and a tad feisty so not even a perfect number 2 driver.

[dialtone]

His team mate is an absolute joke

In no world is Perez an 'absolute joke'.

It's the mark of the greats that they make otherwise good drivers look ordinary/bad.

What about all the other drivers in different cars that also make him look ordinary? Half the grid is greats now?

[Mosin123]

Absolute joke; looked it up in the dictionary:

If you say that something or someone is a joke, you think they are ridiculous and do not deserve respect.

And absolute;

Absolute means total and complete.

Perez is a solid midfield driver. Not really a good qualifier and a tad feisty so not even a perfect number 2 driver.

Cant say i agree that a solid midfield driver would be failing to make q3 in a car that was able to get pole, and finishing 8th when the other car won, that is what you would expect from a rookie having his first run ever in the car, you expect a " solid midfield driver " to make q3 atleast, and also finish top 5 atleast when having the fastest car on the grid.

[DDopey]

From the results that Perez has achieved for over more than a decade than you can say it is a pretty good driver. But that was also said about, Ricciardo, Albon, Gasly…until they went against Max. It almost looks like it breaks something in them. But that’s just an observation, a lot more variables are in place that could invalidate this observation.

[Sieper]

Absolute joke; looked it up in the dictionary:

If you say that something or someone is a joke, you think they are ridiculous and do not deserve respect.

And absolute;

Absolute means total and complete.

Perez is a solid midfield driver. Not really a good qualifier and a tad feisty so not even a perfect number 2 driver.

Cant say i agree that a solid midfield driver would be failing to make q3 in a car that was able to get pole, and finishing 8th when the other car won, that is what you would expect from a rookie having his first run ever in the car, you expect a " solid midfield driver " to make q3 atleast, and also finish top 5 atleast when having the fastest car on the grid.

Margins were tight, he missed out.

[Silent Storm]

2018 Monaco was a turning point for Max... That crash changed him.

[Seanspeed]

His team mate is an absolute joke

In no world is Perez an 'absolute joke'.

It's the mark of the greats that they make otherwise good drivers look ordinary/bad.

What about all the other drivers in different cars that also make him look ordinary? Half the grid is greats now?

What on earth are you talking about?

Absolutely none of Perez's previous teammates has ever comprehensively beaten him like Max has. Not even close. Perez was competitive with basically everybody he's been up against in the past.

Talking like Perez is an 'absolute joke' is wild hyperbole and a complete rewriting of history.