2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[SSJ4]

I find it strange that Alonso says it's hard to drive while Stroll is happy as a clam.

maybe its a bit like hamilton and russell.

one is testing more extreme setups as opposed to the other driver

[KimiRai]

(deepl translate)
The situation Aston Martin finds itself in is difficult, but it worries the team's leaders up to a certain point. In fact, it seems that the package of innovations that will arrive in the next races will give more confidence, but data, simulations and hopes are one thing, it is another to have the hoped-for feedback shown by the track.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-as ... /10613554/

[makecry]

I find it strange that Alonso says it's hard to drive while Stroll is happy as a clam.

Stroll said it was hard to drive as well. He just didn´t miss a whole FP with it.

I refuse to believe a missed FP is enough to drop Fernando behind stroll.

[xReVo]

However, thinking about it, Aston Martin started to have difficulties in Austria and not at Silverstone, so the tires are not to blame. In Canada, during the race, Aston Martin ran very fast almost at the same pace as Verstappen. The change of the front wing arrived in Austria. So that's exactly the problem. The front wing is the most important part of the car, the first point the car encounters the air. Seeing later how the team changed the design several times, it makes me think that that is precisely the problem with amr23. Now, looking at this year, taking Japan For reference, AMR24 is a step up from the previous car. So there were improvements in the winter, why aren't there during the year? AMR22 was the car that was the most improved during the year I would like to remind you, why did the team lose this sudden skill? For me, I repeat, the problem cannot be the rear suspension, given that they have problems in the tunnel numbers and in reality they do not correspond. There is an obvious correlation problem, which however strangely begins after the first race, because this doesn't happen in winter. It takes Sherlock Holmes to understand what is happening.

[Emag]

Teams which have played around with the front wing usually haven't had a good time in this regulation set. If you find something that works for the concept, it's best to leave it alone (minus minor optimizations) and focus on gains elsewhere. Ferrari, RedBull and McLaren never make huge changes to their front wing with their updates. The other team which was messing with "clever" ideas with the front wing this year was Mercedes, with an interesting idea to bring back the "y250" vortex, but with each change they've brought to that front wing they have made it weaker and weaker to the point where it's barely existing as a feature right now. So clearly that didn't work out ...

[jofs89]

However, thinking about it, Aston Martin started to have difficulties in Austria and not at Silverstone, so the tires are not to blame. In Canada, during the race, Aston Martin ran very fast almost at the same pace as Verstappen. The change of the front wing arrived in Austria. So that's exactly the problem. The front wing is the most important part of the car, the first point the car encounters the air. Seeing later how the team changed the design several times, it makes me think that that is precisely the problem with amr23. Now, looking at this year, taking Japan For reference, AMR24 is a step up from the previous car. So there were improvements in the winter, why aren't there during the year? AMR22 was the car that was the most improved during the year I would like to remind you, why did the team lose this sudden skill? For me, I repeat, the problem cannot be the rear suspension, given that they have problems in the tunnel numbers and in reality they do not correspond. There is an obvious correlation problem, which however strangely begins after the first race, because this doesn't happen in winter. It takes Sherlock Holmes to understand what is happening.

I agree that it is a very strange trajectory. They went from being the team that had probably the best in season upgrades in 2022 (admittedly from a low bar). And then the start of 2023 they develop a really good car, at this point the trajectory is very encouraging given Alonso's arrival plus a host of senior hires from top teams (Blandin, Fallows etc.) you think at this point maybe in 2024 they will be champion contenders... They probably should have won the Monaco GP (if they make the right tyre call) and then Spain happens. They are nowhere in Spain with Alonso struggling more than Stroll. Then they bring a big upgrade package that appears to really close the gap to RB in Canada. After that (barr Dutch and Brazilian GP) they are sort of nowhere the rest of the season.

2024 They start with a fast car that chews it's tyres and then proceed to develop the speed out of the car towards a slow but lower degradation car.

The problem with AMR is that there's no consistency to the trend or narrative around the team. One minute they seem quite good and then they are literally pretty much the slowest car. No other team has had such wild swings in performance over the course of these regulations, it just doesn't really make sense. It does all kind of lead you to think that they can design a pretty good car but don't seem to know why it's fast so have nowhere to go once it's been created. Like you say this team is a real mystery...

[SSJ4]

Teams which have played around with the front wing usually haven't had a good time in this regulation set. If you find something that works for the concept, it's best to leave it alone (minus minor optimizations) and focus on gains elsewhere. Ferrari, RedBull and McLaren never make huge changes to their front wing with their updates. The other team which was messing with "clever" ideas with the front wing this year was Mercedes, with an interesting idea to bring back the "y250" vortex, but with each change they've brought to that front wing they have made it weaker and weaker to the point where it's barely existing as a feature right now. So clearly that didn't work out ...

agreed pierre wache already said the following.
when technical director Pierre Waché presented his RB18, he did not dwell on this part of the car, merely pointing out Red Bull's specific design: "The nose is attached to the second flap," he slipped. "We are the only ones to do so." This year, the French engineer is no more talkative. "The front wing is not a place where you gain a lot directly, but above all it allows you to control the flow of air to the floor. In addition, the regulations limit us enormously. There is not much to do. Teams like Aston Martin or Mercedes play on deflection but the gain is marginal: we are talking about a tenth, no more!"

[xReVo]

Teams which have played around with the front wing usually haven't had a good time in this regulation set. If you find something that works for the concept, it's best to leave it alone (minus minor optimizations) and focus on gains elsewhere. Ferrari, RedBull and McLaren never make huge changes to their front wing with their updates. The other team which was messing with "clever" ideas with the front wing this year was Mercedes, with an interesting idea to bring back the "y250" vortex, but with each change they've brought to that front wing they have made it weaker and weaker to the point where it's barely existing as a feature right now. So clearly that didn't work out ...

agreed pierre wache already said the following.
when technical director Pierre Waché presented his RB18, he did not dwell on this part of the car, merely pointing out Red Bull's specific design: "The nose is attached to the second flap," he slipped. "We are the only ones to do so." This year, the French engineer is no more talkative. "The front wing is not a place where you gain a lot directly, but above all it allows you to control the flow of air to the floor. In addition, the regulations limit us enormously. There is not much to do. Teams like Aston Martin or Mercedes play on deflection but the gain is marginal: we are talking about a tenth, no more!"

You don't have to think about direct profit, but about indirect one. That is, the way in which the front wing changes the flows, in 2023 is a clear example that if it works, the enormous gains it can give. The Canadian updates seemed to be the problem, because McLaren brought concepts very similar to Aston Martin pre Canada, in Austria they went fast and then the blame fell on the bellies. However, over time McLaren demonstrated that that wasn't the problem. Consequently the front wing is also fundamental in these regulations, but it's not worth dwelling on it, because it's too difficult to understand, also considering the various bans that happen every year

[xReVo]

However, thinking about it, Aston Martin started to have difficulties in Austria and not at Silverstone, so the tires are not to blame. In Canada, during the race, Aston Martin ran very fast almost at the same pace as Verstappen. The change of the front wing arrived in Austria. So that's exactly the problem. The front wing is the most important part of the car, the first point the car encounters the air. Seeing later how the team changed the design several times, it makes me think that that is precisely the problem with amr23. Now, looking at this year, taking Japan For reference, AMR24 is a step up from the previous car. So there were improvements in the winter, why aren't there during the year? AMR22 was the car that was the most improved during the year I would like to remind you, why did the team lose this sudden skill? For me, I repeat, the problem cannot be the rear suspension, given that they have problems in the tunnel numbers and in reality they do not correspond. There is an obvious correlation problem, which however strangely begins after the first race, because this doesn't happen in winter. It takes Sherlock Holmes to understand what is happening.

I agree that it is a very strange trajectory. They went from being the team that had probably the best in season upgrades in 2022 (admittedly from a low bar). And then the start of 2023 they develop a really good car, at this point the trajectory is very encouraging given Alonso's arrival plus a host of senior hires from top teams (Blandin, Fallows etc.) you think at this point maybe in 2024 they will be champion contenders... They probably should have won the Monaco GP (if they make the right tyre call) and then Spain happens. They are nowhere in Spain with Alonso struggling more than Stroll. Then they bring a big upgrade package that appears to really close the gap to RB in Canada. After that (barr Dutch and Brazilian GP) they are sort of nowhere the rest of the season.

2024 They start with a fast car that chews it's tyres and then proceed to develop the speed out of the car towards a slow but lower degradation car.

The problem with AMR is that there's no consistency to the trend or narrative around the team. One minute they seem quite good and then they are literally pretty much the slowest car. No other team has had such wild swings in performance over the course of these regulations, it just doesn't really make sense. It does all kind of lead you to think that they can design a pretty good car but don't seem to know why it's fast so have nowhere to go once it's been created. Like you say this team is a real mystery...

I agree with you on everything, just look at the other cars on the grid, all of them, for better or worse, are in the same position, Aston is the only one that changes position clearly from one weekend to the next. And if you think about it, teams like Haas and Williams, which are clients anyway, don't have these problems. So how can they say that Aston Martin's problem is the structures.

[diffuser]

Teams which have played around with the front wing usually haven't had a good time in this regulation set. If you find something that works for the concept, it's best to leave it alone (minus minor optimizations) and focus on gains elsewhere. Ferrari, RedBull and McLaren never make huge changes to their front wing with their updates. The other team which was messing with "clever" ideas with the front wing this year was Mercedes, with an interesting idea to bring back the "y250" vortex, but with each change they've brought to that front wing they have made it weaker and weaker to the point where it's barely existing as a feature right now. So clearly that didn't work out ...

AMR have played around with the front wing but they have been very minor until last weekend. Even then overall shape of the wing is the same.

[diffuser]

I find it strange that Alonso says it's hard to drive while Stroll is happy as a clam.

Stroll said it was hard to drive as well. He just didn´t miss a whole FP with it.

I refuse to believe a missed FP is enough to drop Fernando behind stroll.

It's why they put alot of fuel in the car in quali, to get some laps + he took Strolls setup.

[-wkst-]

Schmidt didn't talk a lot in his video blog about AMR. Only that the car is still extremely peaky, but also mentioned the time of ALO on hards before crashing. Actually this time was even slightly faster after sector 2 than his quali lap...

[SSJ4]

just watched the monaco grand prix again. don't think i'll ever emotionally recover from losing that pole position and boxing for mediums when it was raining heavily

[Hoffman900]

McLaren developed the 2023 car (including the major upgrades later in the season) in the old Toyota wind tunnel. Even their 2024 car was conceived using the old tunnel, even though upgrades for this car will likely come from parts tested in their new wind tunnel.

However, it is their 2025 car that will be fully developed (from the get-go) with their in-house wind tunnel.

Anyway, if the correlation is good, the wind tunnel is not a major limitation. RedBull is currently using an archaic tunnel compared to the competition, but clearly that's not holding them back.

For McLaren, the biggest benefit to having the wind tunnel at their factory comes in form of logistics. It's way less efficient to ship parts back and forth from Woking to Cologne, but of course, you can't mitigate the benefits of newer technology. For sure they are getting some benefit from the modern facilities.

You correlate your CFD with wind tunnel data, until you can get on track data.

If your wind tunnel is wrong, your code will be wrong as well.

True. But Mercedes gives their own facility but not software and computing power to work on data you get from wind tunnel

They’re all using commercial software with their own code for correlation. The options are endless in CFD programs.

No CFD (and FEA in that matter) are going to be right without correlation with un modified inputs.

[selvam_e2002]

I think the CFD is an excuse for all the team in F1 if the car is not good. They blame the system however the system is developed by human. No one willing to accept the failure. This is how it works in real world.