Mercedes W15

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W15

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Hoffman900 wrote:
22 May 2024, 16:55
Luscion wrote:
22 May 2024, 14:53
Allison confirming Merc have upgrades in Monaco, "aero and others", bringing upgrades in Canada and again in the races to follow. Seems in line with what ted said James told him in imola of incremental upgrades and then a big one before summer break

Increment updates have always left me curious, because aerodynamics don’t occur in isolation. You change one part and you effect everything downstream of it.

Incremental updates more read to me like fixing things more so that an “upgrade”.
One could argue that the wind tunnel is an approximation of the full sized car, and in the wind tunnel they do test parts one by one at times, so it follows that brining incremental upgrades to the track is a more thorough way of testing a carefully selected group of parts as part of a big package, and feeding back data to the wind tunnel, so they can tune the whole package, and their tunnel in the most accurate way.

They parts they select first to bring to track might be the more "tweakable" parts or the ones that have easier adjustment in the tunnel, or the ones that have a stronger effect on downstream flow... Is what I'm gonna guess.

It's exaclty in-line with the "incremental" philosophy that they have commited to now.
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maygun
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Re: Mercedes W15

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Matt2725 wrote:
23 May 2024, 09:57
maygun wrote:
22 May 2024, 19:11
clownfish wrote:
22 May 2024, 16:49
Courtesy of Adam Cooper:

https://adamcooperf1.com/2024/05/22/all ... r-footing/

Do we think there was a genuine improvement relative to Red Bull with the most recent update? I can't see it in my own notes (which are pretty mediocre, admittedly).
In Imola:
Lewis was +35s behind Ver, he made a mistake that cost him 5s, so it should be around 30s. Per lap difference 0.476.
In China George was +38s behind Ver, Per lap difference 0.679

Imola Pole/China Pole = 0.796
So normalized difference: 0.796 * 0.679 = 0.540

0.540 - 0.476 = 0.06, so congrats Merc for gaining half a tenth :D
I'll just assume you're making a simplistic comparison for fun rather than any serious discussion.
Yeah, it is a simplistic comparison, but probably close to accurate. No way without access to teams' internal data we can make a real comparison, similar to every comment in this forum, every comment is just a speculation.

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Goblin42
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Re: Mercedes W15

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New High downforce rear wing on the W15
Image

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: Mercedes W15

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Goblin42 wrote:
23 May 2024, 16:46
New High downforce rear wing on the W15
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GORVFpmXoAA ... &name=orig
Lewis is saying they brought no upgrades this weekend, that rear wing also looks like the same one Lewis was running in pre season testing with some modifications to it

Image

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Mercedes W15

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Luscion wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:07
Lewis is saying they brought no upgrades this weekend, that rear wing also looks like the same one Lewis was running in pre season testing with some modifications to it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG7HaB2XEAA ... =4096x4096
Completely new geometry all the way from the scoop to the endplate (and a completely different endplate and flap tip), this part is the main element and has to be constructed as integral carbon-fibre laminate. Everything points to an all-new wing

The new wing is definitely cutting a lot of inefficient drag in the area of endplate joint, the 2022 launch-spec wing was really unrefined there, very bulky and thick vertical transition
Last edited by Vanja #66 on 23 May 2024, 17:30, edited 1 time in total.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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Cs98
Cs98
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Joined: 01 Jul 2022, 11:37

Re: Mercedes W15

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Luscion wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:07
Goblin42 wrote:
23 May 2024, 16:46
New High downforce rear wing on the W15
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GORVFpmXoAA ... &name=orig
Lewis is saying they brought no upgrades this weekend, that rear wing also looks like the same one Lewis was running in pre season testing with some modifications to it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG7HaB2XEAA ... =4096x4096
Lewis may not consider circuit specific details to be proper "upgrades". But if you look at the corner of the wing, where the horizontal plane and vertical plane meet, you can clearly see this is a different wing entirely.

cplchanb
cplchanb
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 19:13

Re: Mercedes W15

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Vanja #66 wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:29
Luscion wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:07
Lewis is saying they brought no upgrades this weekend, that rear wing also looks like the same one Lewis was running in pre season testing with some modifications to it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG7HaB2XEAA ... =4096x4096
Completely new geometry all the way from the scoop to the endplate (and a completely different endplate and flap tip), this part is the main element and has to be constructed as integral carbon-fibre laminate. Everything points to an all-new wing

The new wing is definitely cutting a lot of inefficient drag in the area of endplate joint, the 2022 launch-spec wing was really unrefined there, very bulky and thick vertical transition
its shocking how long it took merc to thin the transition between endplate and mainplane. theyve always had this beefy thick construction since 2022. one would assume that would be one of the lowest hanging fruit to cut drag.

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Goblin42
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Location: LA

Re: Mercedes W15

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Luscion wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:07
Goblin42 wrote:
23 May 2024, 16:46
New High downforce rear wing on the W15
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GORVFpmXoAA ... &name=orig
Lewis is saying they brought no upgrades this weekend, that rear wing also looks like the same one Lewis was running in pre season testing with some modifications to it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG7HaB2XEAA ... =4096x4096
The rear wing that they tested in day 3 of preseason test is the same double spoon rear wing from the W13
Image

in Barharin preseason test
Image

The new Rear wing looks like last year's aston martin RW

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Goblin42
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Location: LA

Re: Mercedes W15

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Side note i'm curious would they use the lowered wishbone design for Monaco

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Mercedes W15

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cplchanb wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:34
its shocking how long it took merc to thin the transition between endplate and mainplane. theyve always had this beefy thick construction since 2022. one would assume that would be one of the lowest hanging fruit to cut drag.
They've had quite a lot of bigger issues to sort out first. In any case, seeing a new high-load wing is a good sign foe the team, they are starting to pay attention to these details again
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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r85
r85
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Re: Mercedes W15

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Vanja #66 wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:29
Luscion wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:07
Lewis is saying they brought no upgrades this weekend, that rear wing also looks like the same one Lewis was running in pre season testing with some modifications to it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG7HaB2XEAA ... =4096x4096
Completely new geometry all the way from the scoop to the endplate (and a completely different endplate and flap tip), this part is the main element and has to be constructed as integral carbon-fibre laminate. Everything points to an all-new wing

The new wing is definitely cutting a lot of inefficient drag in the area of endplate joint, the 2022 launch-spec wing was really unrefined there, very bulky and thick vertical transition
And it looks like they also got rid of that double scoop thing from the W13/W14 rear wing. Do you know what advantage it had and why they would remove it?

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: Mercedes W15

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Vanja #66 wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:29
Luscion wrote:
23 May 2024, 17:07
Lewis is saying they brought no upgrades this weekend, that rear wing also looks like the same one Lewis was running in pre season testing with some modifications to it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG7HaB2XEAA ... =4096x4096
Completely new geometry all the way from the scoop to the endplate (and a completely different endplate and flap tip), this part is the main element and has to be constructed as integral carbon-fibre laminate. Everything points to an all-new wing

The new wing is definitely cutting a lot of inefficient drag in the area of endplate joint, the 2022 launch-spec wing was really unrefined there, very bulky and thick vertical transition

i stand corrected

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Mercedes W15

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r85 wrote:
23 May 2024, 18:00
And it looks like they also got rid of that double scoop thing from the W13/W14 rear wing. Do you know what advantage it had and why they would remove it?
It wasn't really a double scoop (years ago there were actual M/W wings :mrgreen: ) but a geometrical shape that resulted from pronounced middle scoop at lower AoA turning to higher AoA mid-span, before going back to lower AoA around the endplate joint, to reduce the losses these wings are condemned to. You can see a similar, but less pronounced, feature on RB high-load wing too

Image

The central scoop (lower AoA) is possibly there to either slightly improve efficiency (downforce/drag) or maybe there are some separation concerns for the flap (especially with swan neck pylon in front), so they reduce the AoA locally where this separation is most likely to occur.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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Goblin42
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Joined: 06 May 2022, 14:52
Location: LA

Re: Mercedes W15

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new High downforce rear wing rocking the same tip design as the medium DF RW that was introduced in imola last week, there's also some subtle modifications to the lower SIS cover

Image
Image

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Mercedes W15

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Goblin42 wrote:
23 May 2024, 21:10
new High downforce rear wing rocking the same tip design as the medium DF RW that was introduced in imola last week, there's also some subtle modifications to the lower SIS cover

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOR85juXsAA ... &name=orig
https://i.ibb.co/rdf1ZqY/image.png
We can also see the more pronounced indent in the floor roof that was seen on Russell's car in Australia, right where the edge wing starts

Image
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie