Yeah probably a big performance gain in low speed and efficiency to come if this is something RB are not currently exploitingCs98 wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:25Either way it seems like there is a lot of performance in this area from being able to balance out the car between high and low speed, we see it with McLaren, we saw it with the AMR23. I suspect the FIA will look between their fingers here because they want it to remain competitive, but then RB should have a really solid upgrade at some point.
Interesting, thanks for sharing Checo's FW spec Just checked, it was introduced in Canada, they used same spec wings in Monaco and Imola.
so I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.Anyone who has a wing that individually delivers the desired downforce in slow and fast corners and thus also changes the flow to the rear has a trump card in their hand. Of course Red Bull does that too. At the moment it just looks like McLaren, Ferrari and now possibly Mercedes have stepped up their game in this area.
Just trying to blame other teams as using tricks if they catching up to themSergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:53But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article saysso I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.Anyone who has a wing that individually delivers the desired downforce in slow and fast corners and thus also changes the flow to the rear has a trump card in their hand. Of course Red Bull does that too. At the moment it just looks like McLaren, Ferrari and now possibly Mercedes have stepped up their game in this area.
I don't think the onboard cameras are a good way of measuring flex. Because they are not just flexing the elements of the wing down but the whole front wing structure can deform and fold.Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:53But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article saysso I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.Anyone who has a wing that individually delivers the desired downforce in slow and fast corners and thus also changes the flow to the rear has a trump card in their hand. Of course Red Bull does that too. At the moment it just looks like McLaren, Ferrari and now possibly Mercedes have stepped up their game in this area.
Fair point, but onboard cameras are the tool by which everyone is saying that McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes front wing are bending, and by these footage I can't see a big difference with RB's wing...maybe teams are able to measure flexing with other tools ? for example, how is the FIA measuring flexing when the car is moving ?organic wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 10:00I don't think the onboard cameras are a good way of measuring flex. Because they are not just flexing the elements of the wing down but the whole front wing structure can deform and fold.Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:53But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article saysso I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.Anyone who has a wing that individually delivers the desired downforce in slow and fast corners and thus also changes the flow to the rear has a trump card in their hand. Of course Red Bull does that too. At the moment it just looks like McLaren, Ferrari and now possibly Mercedes have stepped up their game in this area.
They would have no benefit to raising it as an issue if they were exploiting this area as much as rivals are, but according to the media RB have been repeatedly raising it since Imola with respect to especially McLaren, lesser extent Ferrari. Then Merc with the new wing also does it. if they were exploiting this area just as much as others I can't think why they would be so keen to get the rule changed?
However importantly there is precedent even under budget cap for this to be rapidly changed if the rules are being exploited as we saw in 2023 with TD018 crippling AMR
Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 10:12Fair point, but onboard cameras are the tool by which everyone is saying that McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes front wings are bending, and by these footage I can't see a big difference with RB's wing...maybe teams are able to measure flexing with other tools ? for example, how is the FIA measuring flexing when the car is moving ?organic wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 10:00I don't think the onboard cameras are a good way of measuring flex. Because they are not just flexing the elements of the wing down but the whole front wing structure can deform and fold.Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:53But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article says
so I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.
They would have no benefit to raising it as an issue if they were exploiting this area as much as rivals are, but according to the media RB have been repeatedly raising it since Imola with respect to especially McLaren, lesser extent Ferrari. Then Merc with the new wing also does it. if they were exploiting this area just as much as others I can't think why they would be so keen to get the rule changed?
However importantly there is precedent even under budget cap for this to be rapidly changed if the rules are being exploited as we saw in 2023 with TD018 crippling AMR
Don't they have more camera angles like the 360 degree camera?Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 10:12Fair point, but onboard cameras are the tool by which everyone is saying that McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes front wing are bending, and by these footage I can't see a big difference with RB's wing...maybe teams are able to measure flexing with other tools ? for example, how is the FIA measuring flexing when the car is moving ?organic wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 10:00I don't think the onboard cameras are a good way of measuring flex. Because they are not just flexing the elements of the wing down but the whole front wing structure can deform and fold.Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:53But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article says
so I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.
They would have no benefit to raising it as an issue if they were exploiting this area as much as rivals are, but according to the media RB have been repeatedly raising it since Imola with respect to especially McLaren, lesser extent Ferrari. Then Merc with the new wing also does it. if they were exploiting this area just as much as others I can't think why they would be so keen to get the rule changed?
However importantly there is precedent even under budget cap for this to be rapidly changed if the rules are being exploited as we saw in 2023 with TD018 crippling AMR
Front wing is too low to be seen on 360 camorganic wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 10:14Don't they have more camera angles like the 360 degree camera?Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 10:12Fair point, but onboard cameras are the tool by which everyone is saying that McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes front wing are bending, and by these footage I can't see a big difference with RB's wing...maybe teams are able to measure flexing with other tools ? for example, how is the FIA measuring flexing when the car is moving ?organic wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 10:00
I don't think the onboard cameras are a good way of measuring flex. Because they are not just flexing the elements of the wing down but the whole front wing structure can deform and fold.
They would have no benefit to raising it as an issue if they were exploiting this area as much as rivals are, but according to the media RB have been repeatedly raising it since Imola with respect to especially McLaren, lesser extent Ferrari. Then Merc with the new wing also does it. if they were exploiting this area just as much as others I can't think why they would be so keen to get the rule changed?
However importantly there is precedent even under budget cap for this to be rapidly changed if the rules are being exploited as we saw in 2023 with TD018 crippling AMR
Also red bull can provide help to FIA to prove it
Throughout the years with the flexi-wing TDs it has never been about whether or not the wing flexes, it's always been to which degree it flexes. RB thinks that there are teams that are straying over that line again, so they want clarification on how to best proceed. Either the FIA tightens the regulations again, best case for RB, or they say that it is okay and RB will need to re-design its FW to flex more. Either way they gain something.Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:53But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article saysso I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.Anyone who has a wing that individually delivers the desired downforce in slow and fast corners and thus also changes the flow to the rear has a trump card in their hand. Of course Red Bull does that too. At the moment it just looks like McLaren, Ferrari and now possibly Mercedes have stepped up their game in this area.
There’s always option C. Nobody is doing anything and RBR is just making noise, and there really isn’t anything for them to catch up with either.Cs98 wrote:Throughout the years with the flexi-wing TDs it has never been about whether or not the wing flexes, it's always been to which degree it flexes. RB thinks that there are teams that are straying over that line again, so they want clarification on how to best proceed. Either the FIA tightens the regulations again, best case for RB, or they say that it is okay and RB will need to re-design its FW to flex more. Either way they gain something.Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:53But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article saysso I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.Anyone who has a wing that individually delivers the desired downforce in slow and fast corners and thus also changes the flow to the rear has a trump card in their hand. Of course Red Bull does that too. At the moment it just looks like McLaren, Ferrari and now possibly Mercedes have stepped up their game in this area.
And of course we have option D.
What's the upside in wasting your time on an FIA query if there is no possible outcome that benefits you? You are thinking like a fan, not an F1 team.dialtone wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 13:00There’s always option C. Nobody is doing anything and RBR is just making noise, and there really isn’t anything for them to catch up with either.Cs98 wrote:Throughout the years with the flexi-wing TDs it has never been about whether or not the wing flexes, it's always been to which degree it flexes. RB thinks that there are teams that are straying over that line again, so they want clarification on how to best proceed. Either the FIA tightens the regulations again, best case for RB, or they say that it is okay and RB will need to re-design its FW to flex more. Either way they gain something.Sergej wrote: ↑18 Jun 2024, 09:53But the RB20's front wing does actually bend, it's clearly visible from footage, so the point is that it's not as flexible as other teams' wings ? in fact the article says
so I don't quite understand the quote from RB “If this continues to be tolerated, we have to take the same path,” if they are already exploiting this thing.