curbs certainly won't help but with the low speed corners and high rear tyres degradation, McLaren will muller RB at Austria
|organic wrote: ↑24 Jun 2024, 17:54curbs certainly won't help but with the low speed corners and high rear tyres degradation, McLaren will muller RB at Austria
At Barcelona RB ran a setup to really protect the tyres, resulting in a ton of low speed understeer and yet still had far worse degradation than McLaren. At Austria they'll have to do the same but could see it being even greater effect with Austria being one of the hardest on the tyres of all
venkyhere wrote: ↑24 Jun 2024, 17:06I also suspect the reason RB20 suffers more tyre wear than MCL38, despite 'more dowforce' (looked more wing in Barcelona. correct me if im wrong) is the same reason why they can't kerb ride well - super stiff front suspension, which in turn is forcing the hand to make the rear stiffer than what they would like. There needs to be some softness to roll, otherwise no matter what downforce they have, the car will slip a bit more than when the suspension is softer.
I think this is the missing link in the chain and once this is solved, RB20 will jump clear of MCL38 - kerbs will be better, tyre wear will be better, mechanical grip in slow turns will be better.
I think the only issue/unexpected behaviour with the front suspension is the curbing. They had no qualms with the suspension until Miami when they started needing to ride higher curbsvenkyhere wrote: ↑24 Jun 2024, 18:29|organic wrote: ↑24 Jun 2024, 17:54curbs certainly won't help but with the low speed corners and high rear tyres degradation, McLaren will muller RB at Austria
At Barcelona RB ran a setup to really protect the tyres, resulting in a ton of low speed understeer and yet still had far worse degradation than McLaren. At Austria they'll have to do the same but could see it being even greater effect with Austria being one of the hardest on the tyres of all
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venkyhere wrote: ↑24 Jun 2024, 17:06I also suspect the reason RB20 suffers more tyre wear than MCL38, despite 'more dowforce' (looked more wing in Barcelona. correct me if im wrong) is the same reason why they can't kerb ride well - super stiff front suspension, which in turn is forcing the hand to make the rear stiffer than what they would like. There needs to be some softness to roll, otherwise no matter what downforce they have, the car will slip a bit more than when the suspension is softer.
I think this is the missing link in the chain and once this is solved, RB20 will jump clear of MCL38 - kerbs will be better, tyre wear will be better, mechanical grip in slow turns will be better.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0j5jj1n[Talking about perez's performance]
Benson: I think actually, Jenny, excuse me, there's not a fix for this, because basically, as [Checo] is two to three tenths of a second slower than Max Verstappen, and the field is close enough now that there's a number of cars that are within that performance margin of Verstappen and Red Bull. You know that combination? So if you've got both McLaren drivers, both Ferrari drivers and both Mercedes drivers within two or three tenths of Verstappen, they're going to be ahead of Perez. That's just the natural order of things. And I think it also raises a really interesting question. It can't be answered this question until we've had the next run of races.
Is the Red Bull still the best car?
Because if you walk around the paddock and talk to the team bosses, I've had a couple of very senior people in Formula One this year say to me, I think Verstappen's got two or three tenths on everybody as a driver. Now I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm saying that's the view that very senior bosses in Formula One have expressed. If that's the case, and it's a big if, the Red Bull's not the best car anymore. Interesting question, I think at least.
Palmer: I always find it fascinating when the second Red Bull driver, which has happened in the last five years or so, has been out qualified by an Alpha Tauri, Toro Rosso, an RB, whatever you call them. And Tsunoda's punching in eighth place qualifyings, Ricciardo was fifth on the grid in Canada. If you Verstappen in that car, is Verstappen taking pole with this machine?
There is a reason why Lando didn't want to go to Red Bull. It's that the car is exclusively built around Max's preferences. The good part of the Red Bull cars in this Pirelli era, is that they take good care of the tyres. I am not sure if other teams can provide that combination of a super pointy front end and with good overall tyre life. That's the reason why other drivers have struggled in the team and drivers like Lando don't want to go, so long as the cars aren't serving to different preferences. It seems to me that the Max and Red Bull cannot be mutually exclusive.organic wrote: ↑24 Jun 2024, 18:48Andrew Benson/BBC who aren't very pro-verstappen (at all) with statement about what F1 team bosses believe about Verstappen's performance level
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0j5jj1n[Talking about perez's performance]
Benson: I think actually, Jenny, excuse me, there's not a fix for this, because basically, as [Checo] is two to three tenths of a second slower than Max Verstappen, and the field is close enough now that there's a number of cars that are within that performance margin of Verstappen and Red Bull. You know that combination? So if you've got both McLaren drivers, both Ferrari drivers and both Mercedes drivers within two or three tenths of Verstappen, they're going to be ahead of Perez. That's just the natural order of things. And I think it also raises a really interesting question. It can't be answered this question until we've had the next run of races.
Is the Red Bull still the best car?
Because if you walk around the paddock and talk to the team bosses, I've had a couple of very senior people in Formula One this year say to me, I think Verstappen's got two or three tenths on everybody as a driver. Now I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm saying that's the view that very senior bosses in Formula One have expressed. If that's the case, and it's a big if, the Red Bull's not the best car anymore. Interesting question, I think at least.
Palmer: I always find it fascinating when the second Red Bull driver, which has happened in the last five years or so, has been out qualified by an Alpha Tauri, Toro Rosso, an RB, whatever you call them. And Tsunoda's punching in eighth place qualifyings, Ricciardo was fifth on the grid in Canada. If you Verstappen in that car, is Verstappen taking pole with this machine?
Ferrari and Mclaren have had better tire degradation this year. The Red Bull front end is not as pointy as the Mclaren front end either. All of this was visible in Barcelona and previous races.Dunlay wrote: ↑24 Jun 2024, 19:35There is a reason why Lando didn't want to go to Red Bull. It's that the car is exclusively built around Max's preferences. The good part of the Red Bull cars in this Pirelli era, is that they take good care of the tyres. I am not sure if other teams can provide that combination of a super pointy front end and with good overall tyre life. That's the reason why other drivers have struggled in the team and drivers like Lando don't want to go, so long as the cars aren't serving to different preferences. It seems to me that the Max and Red Bull cannot be mutually exclusive.
Possibly the DRS top speed at Spa, Vegas, and Monza but we haven't had races at these tracks since the Miami upgrades of Mclaren. Otherwise, no, I don't see anything that the RB20 does better than the MCL38.
I'm not sure if this is nuanced enough but my basic understanding with these cars would be that