Flexiwings 2024

[djones]

Look at this comparison, no need to go any further than the first braking point into turn one:

The front wing moves the same on both cars. Or was that meant to be the point?

I'm confused as to which team is being accused of it. To me, all the front teams are flexing and have for as long as I can remember.

[LetHimTrough]

Look at this comparison, no need to go any further than the first braking point into turn one:

The front wing moves the same on both cars. Or was that meant to be the point?

I'm confused as to which team is being accused of it. To me, all the front teams are flexing and have for as long as I can remember.

I don't know what it means, but clearly Mclaren's wing move more than the Red Bull one.

[Rikhart]

Look at this comparison, no need to go any further than the first braking point into turn one:

The front wing moves the same on both cars. Or was that meant to be the point?

I'm confused as to which team is being accused of it. To me, all the front teams are flexing and have for as long as I can remember.

I don't know what it means, but clearly Mclaren's wing move more than the Red Bull one.

I mean, I think it's pretty clear, I have no idea how anyone can say they are flexing the same

[f1rules]

I think the issue with the test is, its one directional. It has previously been discussed that, these wings are suddenly "unlocked" when multi directional forces are applied to them.

Anyone know where the 100kg weight is placed on the wing? Because looking at the amount of movement that wing has in any condition, I even wonder how on earth it can even pass a 100kg weight test, those upper flaps look like a butterfly's wing, even mid corner. A small touch of any kerb makes them vibrate and move quite a lot...

[LetHimTrough]

The front wing moves the same on both cars. Or was that meant to be the point?

I'm confused as to which team is being accused of it. To me, all the front teams are flexing and have for as long as I can remember.

I don't know what it means, but clearly Mclaren's wing move more than the Red Bull one.

I mean, I think it's pretty clear, I have no idea how anyone can say they are flexing the same

Well to be honest, once I've also defended that Leclerc pushing away from Hamilton with DRS in Monza was completely normal and legal.

[Tommy Cookers]

... these wings are suddenly "unlocked" when multi directional forces are applied to them.

if you had a machine that applied 'multi-directional forces' .....
you could use it for calibrating the wind tunnel balances

maybe they already have such a machine

[Vanja #66]

Vertical load test basically sees all forces applied on and transmitted to the 2nd element of front wings, it acts as a cantilever. Flaps are easy to flex by hand because longitudinal forces and twisting torque are not part of the test (and as far as I know they never were)

[TimW]

Even if there is something fishy, I don't expect the FIA to act. Finally the field has closed up, and up to 4 teams fighting for the win. They will think twice before they do any tightening up of the rules that might give RB their advantage back.

[SiLo]

I feel like many are assuming Mclaren, Ferrari and Mercedes have gotten away with something. It's more likely that Red Bull are making noise politically because they haven't been able to, or didn't think to, push the boundaries of the front wing as much as other teams. Likely in favour of focusing on the floor.

[chrisc90]

Thing is, all it now takes is one team to go to the extremes and make it excessively flex, then get new tests brought out.

Certainly be interesting to see what teams bring after the summer break in terms of the front wing

[Vanja #66]

It's more likely that Red Bull are making noise politically

No, they'd never

they haven't been able to, or didn't think to, push the boundaries of the front wing as much as other teams. Likely in favour of focusing on the floor.

RB18 and RB19 had outboard flap adjusters like all other cars do and their flaps flexed just the same, for some reason RB20 has them inboard since launch and Red Bull's now making a fuss about it. What made them do it is open to speculation, but rules and flex testing sure weren't the reason or we'd have all other cars with inboard adjusters as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if they thought they had a good idea to make the front wing more rigid, but it didn't work so good and now they tried to force FIA to do something about it, hoping it would hurt other cars - and it absolutely would hurt other cars. Wouldn't be the first time a team tried doing that to others.

RB18



RB19



RB20 with inboard adjusters (Canada, Perez' car only) and flexing



Since they weren't using this test design in Barcelona, probably means it doesn't work well with the rest of the car and likely affects the balance badly. Whether they will push for another wing design with ordinary outboard adjusters or not is something we'll see soon enough.

[bluechris]

Even if there is something fishy, I don't expect the FIA to act. Finally the field has closed up, and up to 4 teams fighting for the win. They will think twice before they do any tightening up of the rules that might give RB their advantage back.

Yeap, i wait RB for an optimised version of the wing... till then all the rest teams can be happy.

[peewon]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-h ... /10625897/

I called it. Merc has FIA by the balls. Their drivers dont get any penalties and they are never asked to revise or drop a development, no mtter how blatantly against the rules it is. I was curious why Ben Sulayem's 20 year old posts on personal website were being dug up by the media and made a huge issue out of when Helmut was going full "superior race" on Perez just last year. Then when the news about him stepping in to stop the AM penalty in Saudi last year came out, it made perfect sense. He probably doesnt play ball with them and they want to get him out.

Did you forget to put your tinfoil hat on?

Lets look at some facts for a second. The main principle behind the new aero regs was to reduce dirty air for following cars.

Mercedes comes out mirror stays that offer no support and produce dirty air - allowed

Mercedes comes out with slot gap separators that produce turbulent air - allowed

Mercedes cannot control porpoising. Ride height raised objectively making the cars harder to follow from the previous season.

AM rear wing with the tootsie roll corners immediately banned. Front wing last year, banned. Mercedes FW clearly flexing on camera, allowed.

Hamilton gets in about 7-8 incidents during the 22 season. Not a single penalty. Russell dive bombs into Pisatri in Japan, no penalty. Alonso lifts for half a second and gets a 20 second penalty and 3 penalty points.

During the pre season, when there was a report by a tabloid media outlet about teams having complained about Sussie Wolff and conflict of interest with her position at FIA, all FIA said was they'll look into it when asked about it by other journalists. They promptly dismissed it soon after. Then Wolff made a huge stink about the FIA and even allegedly said she filed a legal complaint against them.

I found it incredibly strange that she would go after the FIA who said "they'll look into it" and then dismissed it in a couple of days instead of the tabloid that put out the story. Equally strange was the public scrutiny of Sulayem for a milquetoast quote from 20+ years ago.

[SiLo]

I called it. Merc has FIA by the balls. Their drivers dont get any penalties and they are never asked to revise or drop a development, no mtter how blatantly against the rules it is. I was curious why Ben Sulayem's 20 year old posts on personal website were being dug up by the media and made a huge issue out of when Helmut was going full "superior race" on Perez just last year. Then when the news about him stepping in to stop the AM penalty in Saudi last year came out, it made perfect sense. He probably doesnt play ball with them and they want to get him out.

Did you forget to put your tinfoil hat on?

Lets look at some facts for a second. The main principle behind the new aero regs was to reduce dirty air for following cars.

Mercedes comes out mirror stays that offer no support and produce dirty air - allowed

Mercedes comes out with slot gap separators that produce turbulent air - allowed

Mercedes cannot control porpoising. Ride height raised objectively making the cars harder to follow from the previous season.

AM rear wing with the tootsie roll corners immediately banned. Front wing last year, banned. Mercedes FW clearly flexing on camera, allowed.

Hamilton gets in about 7-8 incidents during the 22 season. Not a single penalty. Russell dive bombs into Pisatri in Japan, no penalty. Alonso lifts for half a second and gets a 20 second penalty and 3 penalty points.

During the pre season, when there was a report by a tabloid media outlet about teams having complained about Sussie Wolff and conflict of interest with her position at FIA, all FIA said was they'll look into it when asked about it by other journalists. They promptly dismissed it soon after. Then Wolff made a huge stink about the FIA and even allegedly said she filed a legal complaint against them.

I found it incredibly strange that she would go after the FIA who said "they'll look into it" and then dismissed it in a couple of days instead of the tabloid that put out the story. Equally strange was the public scrutiny of Sulayem for a milquetoast quote from 20+ years ago.

I'm certain I can find evidence of most teams on the grid doing something similar. Every single team has a flexing front wing (as much as Red Bull want us to believe otherwise). Here is an example of Ferrari also doing similar things. Calling Mercedes out has having ideas that are legal and allowed first seems harsh, they have one of the best design teams on the grid, of course they are going to push the boundaries of what is legal, and they ARE legal. If they weren't the FIA would ban them, much like they have done in the past with DAS, oil burning etc. It's easy to find evidence to fit your narrative because all the teams on the grid try this stuff, we just hear less about it from bottom teams because it doesn't really impact the championship in anyway, and they generally don't have the capacity or tools to develop grey area aerodynamics.

Plus, there has been a clear shift in penalties from 2023 onwards with much harsher ones being awarded this year. Hamilton not getting penalties in 2022 doesn't really prove anything, he's had plenty of them from the FIA over the years while driving a Mercedes.

The Wolff & FIA fiasco turned to the courts because the FIA handled it like a bunch of morons, not because they are in the pocket of Mercedes. The issue wasn't that the FIA said they would "look into it", but that they did so with zero communication to Wolff, or other F1 parties. All the F1 teams even made a statement in support of this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68615850

[chrisc90]

AMR rear wing was legal, but the FIA banned it.

Just because it’s legal, doesn’t keep it within the spirit of the rules or not flexing somewhere it shouldn’t be because it’s outside of a test to determine which