Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hasika
hasika
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/79528 ... 578e8f3113

The CEO of HRC,Watanabe san revealed a little information about 2026 PU during Bahrain Grand Prix.
Q:How about the development of 2026 PU?Single cylinder development stage?
Watanabe:Yeah, we are still developing the single cylinder currently. However, we think the key of the initial development stage is the electric components,so we mianly focus on developing battery and motor currently.The process of development was very solid,to our target number.

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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Here you go guys, the reason why we love and respect Honda's contributions to F1 AND to the betterment of our world.

Honda has released an in depth view into its F1 power unit operations between 2015-2022 with a focus on in-house fuel development toward CNF, how it developed it's rapid combustion, negative pressure pulsation tuning, and adiabatic expansion as well as many other technologies to improve efficiency. We also get a look into 2026 from the various articles linked from these published articles.

Rapid combustion
・High-tumble ports to increase turbulent flow energy
・High fuel pressure to increase atomization
・Injector spray tuning to achieve a uniform air-fuel mixture within the cylinders
・Piston crown shape tuning (recess and bowl depth)

Knocking resistance improvement (reduced compression end temperature within cylinders)
・Reduced intake air resistance (branch and port shapes)
・Optimized valve timing
・Negative pressure tuning with variable induction system (VIS)

Combustion efficiency improvement
・Lean-burn control to improve efficiency
・Reduced fuel adhesion to reduce loss due to unburnt fuel (optimized injector spray)
・Improved scavenging (valve timing)

Fuel development
・Higher calorific value
・Improved knocking resistance (fuel property changes and additives)

Control optimization
・Cylinder pressure sensors (CPS) to control knocking
・Exhaust pressure control (using MGU-H)
With the RA617H in 2017, injector position was changed again, but to the exhaust valve side this time. This position was chosen because it was found that injecting fuel in the opposite direction to the flow of air from the open intake valve actually increased homogeneity of the air-fuel mixture.

https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... ain_e-fuel
On May 24, 2023, Honda agreed to participate in F1 from 2026 and to enter into a works partnership with the Aston Martin F1 team to supply power units compliant with new regulations that will take effect from 2026.

Having committed to being carbon neutral from 2030, F1 will require participants to use 100% carbon neutral fuel (CNF) from 2026. It will also significantly expand the electrification rate. As of 2024, it allows 83% of maximum output generated by the power unit to come from the engine, with the remaining 17% coming from the motor (MGU-K), but the 2026 regulations will require 50% of output from the engine and 50% from the motor.

Specifically, this means lowering the cap on fuel flow and otherwise reducing engine output while dramatically increasing output from the MGU-K to 350 kW, or roughly three times its current output. At the same time, the configuration will be simplified to eliminate the MGU-H. These changes in regulations are consistent with the direction Honda has been taking toward the realization of carbon neutrality, giving profound significance to the development of future technologies to realize these goals. Therefore, Honda made the decision to take on a new challenge in F1 racing.

In general, CNF tends to be more difficult to vaporize than traditional fuels, so it is important to collaborate with fuel manufacturers to try and develop fuels that more readily vaporize. On the other hand, there is also a need to develop engines that facilitate combustion of fuels that are difficult to vaporize. On the hardware side, large output MGU-Ks change a car’s vibration profile, so it is essential to ensure reliability to withstand the change. With the larger amounts of energy repeatedly stored in the ES and then used, development needs to focus on minimizing degradation of performance. With elimination of the MGU-H, highly efficient and effective energy management systems must also be developed when relying on the MGU-K alone.

With power unit development being frozen from 2022, development is now limited to reliability improvements. Under these conditions, Honda is contributing to improved performance for the teams it supplies by raising the limits of its power units and maximizing their potential while maintaining reliability. Concurrently with these activities, it is quietly developing a new power unit for launch in 2026.
https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... =Formula-1

GhostF1
GhostF1
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016, 04:11

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ispano6 wrote:
26 Jun 2024, 12:33
Here you go guys, the reason why we love and respect Honda's contributions to F1 AND to the betterment of our world.

Honda has released an in depth view into its F1 power unit operations between 2015-2022 with a focus on in-house fuel development toward CNF, how it developed it's rapid combustion, negative pressure pulsation tuning, and adiabatic expansion as well as many other technologies to improve efficiency. We also get a look into 2026 from the various articles linked from these published articles.

Rapid combustion
・High-tumble ports to increase turbulent flow energy
・High fuel pressure to increase atomization
・Injector spray tuning to achieve a uniform air-fuel mixture within the cylinders
・Piston crown shape tuning (recess and bowl depth)

Knocking resistance improvement (reduced compression end temperature within cylinders)
・Reduced intake air resistance (branch and port shapes)
・Optimized valve timing
・Negative pressure tuning with variable induction system (VIS)

Combustion efficiency improvement
・Lean-burn control to improve efficiency
・Reduced fuel adhesion to reduce loss due to unburnt fuel (optimized injector spray)
・Improved scavenging (valve timing)

Fuel development
・Higher calorific value
・Improved knocking resistance (fuel property changes and additives)

Control optimization
・Cylinder pressure sensors (CPS) to control knocking
・Exhaust pressure control (using MGU-H)
With the RA617H in 2017, injector position was changed again, but to the exhaust valve side this time. This position was chosen because it was found that injecting fuel in the opposite direction to the flow of air from the open intake valve actually increased homogeneity of the air-fuel mixture.

https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... ain_e-fuel
On May 24, 2023, Honda agreed to participate in F1 from 2026 and to enter into a works partnership with the Aston Martin F1 team to supply power units compliant with new regulations that will take effect from 2026.

Having committed to being carbon neutral from 2030, F1 will require participants to use 100% carbon neutral fuel (CNF) from 2026. It will also significantly expand the electrification rate. As of 2024, it allows 83% of maximum output generated by the power unit to come from the engine, with the remaining 17% coming from the motor (MGU-K), but the 2026 regulations will require 50% of output from the engine and 50% from the motor.

Specifically, this means lowering the cap on fuel flow and otherwise reducing engine output while dramatically increasing output from the MGU-K to 350 kW, or roughly three times its current output. At the same time, the configuration will be simplified to eliminate the MGU-H. These changes in regulations are consistent with the direction Honda has been taking toward the realization of carbon neutrality, giving profound significance to the development of future technologies to realize these goals. Therefore, Honda made the decision to take on a new challenge in F1 racing.

In general, CNF tends to be more difficult to vaporize than traditional fuels, so it is important to collaborate with fuel manufacturers to try and develop fuels that more readily vaporize. On the other hand, there is also a need to develop engines that facilitate combustion of fuels that are difficult to vaporize. On the hardware side, large output MGU-Ks change a car’s vibration profile, so it is essential to ensure reliability to withstand the change. With the larger amounts of energy repeatedly stored in the ES and then used, development needs to focus on minimizing degradation of performance. With elimination of the MGU-H, highly efficient and effective energy management systems must also be developed when relying on the MGU-K alone.

With power unit development being frozen from 2022, development is now limited to reliability improvements. Under these conditions, Honda is contributing to improved performance for the teams it supplies by raising the limits of its power units and maximizing their potential while maintaining reliability. Concurrently with these activities, it is quietly developing a new power unit for launch in 2026.
https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... =Formula-1
A lot of incredibly transparent articles they've put out. Amazing to read.

Great to have confirmation Carbon Nanotube technology was used for the late 2021 battery. Also interesting to note they say they got to a point that the regulation limit for a CR of 18:1 became a restriction!
Would love to see what they achieved with the 2022 onward power units which are even further!

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Last edited by AR3-GP on 23 Aug 2024, 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
A lion must kill its prey.

gruntguru
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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AR3-GP wrote:
23 Aug 2024, 10:29
Battery evolution: https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... om=related
Goodness me - they have been using the ICE to drive the MGUK!!!!
Under partial throttle when starting to exit a corner, a different control technology called partial recovery is employed. It is used to generate electricity by diverting excess output to the MGU-K after the engine generates enough output to meet the driver’s needs.
je suis charlie

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
24 Aug 2024, 05:45
AR3-GP wrote:
23 Aug 2024, 10:29
Battery evolution: https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... om=related
Goodness me - they have been using the ICE to drive the MGUK!!!!
Under partial throttle when starting to exit a corner, a different control technology called partial recovery is employed. It is used to generate electricity by diverting excess output to the MGU-K after the engine generates enough output to meet the driver’s needs.
I thought this part was interesting too. I assume it was already known before.
The maximum amount of energy that can be sent directly from the MGU-K to the ES is 2 MJ per lap, so rather than sending any recovered energy over 2 MJ to the ES, that energy is sent to the MGU-H, which has no restrictions on energy exchanged with the ES. After being used for only a moment to assist the MGU-H, the inertial energy from the rotor is then immediately recovered. Through continuous repetition of this assist-to-recovery cycle at a frequency of 20 Hz or less, the recovered energy is sent to the ES. This is known as Extra Harvest.
A lion must kill its prey.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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''The so called extra harvesting" The MGU-H was always meant to be tasked to make-up for the regulations intended shortfall of the MGU-K recovery (2mj/lap). The more they (ALL OF THEM) managed - how-too, the more and better the ability to deploy all around the lap became in accordance with the maximum deployment allowed per lap.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The so called "Extra harvesting" - This subject. Such technical detailed information (papers) are a rarity in present F1. Out of the four manufactures, at least 'officially' such technical information has only been seen/outed by only two of the present manufacturers, Mercedes and Honda. Such technical information/papers are from time to time qouted by keen followers and that is good. But sometimes the impression is given that such achievements outed are a 'first before others did' As for this subject above ''ability to extra harvest'' Honda can be said to have been the last of the four to have managed such achievements, as was the case in most other expects of their F1 hybrid PU.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
24 Aug 2024, 07:26
''The so called extra harvesting" The MGU-H was always meant to be tasked to make-up for the regulations intended shortfall of the MGU-K recovery (2mj/lap). The more they (ALL OF THEM) managed - how-too, the more and better the ability to deploy all around the lap became in accordance with the maximum deployment allowed per lap.
iirc
there was/is no limit on the deployment per lap - if using electricity from (or seen as from) the MGU-H not the battery
but anyway the MGU-H now has less output because of the compulsory 10% ethanol

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
26 Aug 2024, 12:35
saviour stivala wrote:
24 Aug 2024, 07:26
''The so called extra harvesting" The MGU-H was always meant to be tasked to make-up for the regulations intended shortfall of the MGU-K recovery (2mj/lap). The more they (ALL OF THEM) managed - how-too, the more and better the ability to deploy all around the lap became in accordance with the maximum deployment allowed per lap.
iirc
there was and is no limit on the deployment per lap (for electricity directly from the MGU-H machine)
anyway though the MGU-H now has less output because of the compulsory 10% ethanol
Yes. there was and is no limit on the deployment per lap of the MGU-H which can deploy either to the ES or to the MGU-K, But both the ES and MGU-K have there limit, The ES limit is as to Its deployable charge capacity, and the MGU-K limit is as to it's deployment per lap, it, the MGU-K being the only power source other than the ICE is also limited in both harvesting as well as its deployment per lap. And yes. Agree that the now mandated 10% ethanol makes exhaust gasses less powerful.

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dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
24 Aug 2024, 05:45
AR3-GP wrote:
23 Aug 2024, 10:29
Battery evolution: https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... om=related
Goodness me - they have been using the ICE to drive the MGUK!!!!
Under partial throttle when starting to exit a corner, a different control technology called partial recovery is employed. It is used to generate electricity by diverting excess output to the MGU-K after the engine generates enough output to meet the driver’s needs.
They'll be doing a lot more of that come 2026. Their focus on the electrical side first for the new regs is the right approach.
Honda!

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ispano6
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Honda RBPTH002
Published Output: 740 bhp/552 kW + 161 bhp/120 kW

When comparing with the Ferrari engine, the Ferrari electric motor is listed as making 163 bhp/130kW.
Curiously, when looking at the power output data on VCARBs updated website, the RBPTH002 is published to make 901HP combined total horsepower compared to 985HP (or 958HP, can't find that screenshot anymore) which is what was on the VCARB01 Launch Video animated sequence which they've taken down. I wonder if something happened during the season that forced them to run detuned, whether by caution or enforcement.

Image

Bill
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these pu make over 1000 hp they are hiding their strenghth

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ispano6
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Bill wrote:
26 Sep 2024, 19:07
these pu make over 1000 hp they are hiding their strenghth
I would presume as much, as there were some reports that they made peak 1080HP, but obviously not for a long period. I imagine 901HP is the peak sustainable before clipping with overtake able to take it higher briefly.

saviour stivala
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Dren. "Goodness me - they have been using the ICE to drive the MGU-K!!!". If intended to mean 'driving the MGU-K by ICE power', the answer is no, as the MGU-K recovery rules does not allow that. Of course the MGU-K is actually 'driven' by the ICE crankshaft when recovering, but the rules allow that only under braking. Any other means of recovery by the MGU-K, means 'extra' recovery over and above the 2mj per lap allowed by the rules.
Ispanol6. ''When compering with the FERRARI engine, the FERRARI electric motor (MGU-K) is listed as making 163 bhp/130 kw'' This is not possible according to the rules. But the FERRARI does seem to have an advantage in deployment of electrical power, it has the ability to deploy for longer on the straights. This is believed to be as a result the FERRARI different to the others ICE intake/turbo size combination configuration, resulting in the FERRARI ICE needing less deployment on accelerating at start of straight, resulting in ability to deploy for longer on said straight.