2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Dunlay]

Is seems like Red Bull has found a "Self Destruct" mode for the car! Performance going backwards and now reliability!

[Sieper]

Max is not only loyal while they are winning, he worked with the team towards winning. Also when prospect seemed dire.

You mean when Max had 0 championships and was loyal? Mercedes was the dominant team and they were already winning everything, so the seats were full with Hamilton & wingman. Max had no choice but to be "loyal", where should Max have even gone? The status comparison then and now is completely different. Nowadays, every team wants him.

Drivers are always talking about loyalty, but behind the scenes, they are discussing with other teams, and then surprises like Hamilton to Ferrari happens.

Max doesn’t do much talking. He has now once made a statement and that will be it.

[taperoo2k]

What has happened to this team

Same old thing in F1. Egos clashing in a power struggle that harms the harmony of an F1 team. Team loses focus and rivals start to catch up.

[taperoo2k]

Max is not only loyal while they are winning, he worked with the team towards winning. Also when prospect seemed dire.

You mean when Max had 0 championships and was loyal? Mercedes was the dominant team and they were already winning everything, so the seats were full with Hamilton & wingman. Max had no choice but to be "loyal", where should Max have even gone? The status comparison then and now is completely different. Nowadays, every team wants him.

Drivers are always talking about loyalty, but behind the scenes, they are discussing with other teams, and then surprises like Hamilton to Ferrari happens.

Max doesn’t do much talking. He has now once made a statement and that will be it.

He doesn't really need to say much more than he has. If he is leaving? It'll be announcedd seemingly out of the blue and that will be that.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

You mean when Max had 0 championships and was loyal? Mercedes was the dominant team and they were already winning everything, so the seats were full with Hamilton & wingman. Max had no choice but to be "loyal", where should Max have even gone? The status comparison then and now is completely different. Nowadays, every team wants him.

Drivers are always talking about loyalty, but behind the scenes, they are discussing with other teams, and then surprises like Hamilton to Ferrari happens.

Max doesn’t do much talking. He has now once made a statement and that will be it.

He doesn't really need to say much more than he has. If he is leaving? It'll be announcedd seemingly out of the blue and that will be that.

Exactly. This kind of behind-the-scenes plotting is what the series needs: when Hamilton suddenly jumps to Ferrari, big-name defections to rival teams.

[organic]

A lot is riding on the Silverstone/Hungary update packages

[SirBastianVettel]

A lot is riding on the Silverstone/Hungary update packages

* WDC
* WCC
* Max' future @ Red Bull

Anything else riding on this update?

[Xyz22]

A lot is riding on the Silverstone/Hungary update packages

* WDC
* WCC
* Max' future @ Red Bull

Anything else riding on this update?

The WDC is done already

[organic]

A lot is riding on the Silverstone/Hungary update packages

* WDC
* WCC
* Max' future @ Red Bull

Anything else riding on this update?

The WDC is done already

With the engine penalties to come and the number of competitive teams, as well as Merc & Mclaren's rate of development.. big point swings can happen

[Xyz22]

* WDC
* WCC
* Max' future @ Red Bull

Anything else riding on this update?

The WDC is done already

With the engine penalties to come and the number of competitive teams, as well as Merc & Mclaren's rate of development.. big point swings can happen

Mercedes is not a serious threat right now. In race trim they are nowhere compared to RB.

[Cassius]

The WDC is done already

With the engine penalties to come and the number of competitive teams, as well as Merc & Mclaren's rate of development.. big point swings can happen

Mercedes is not a serious threat right now. In race trim they are nowhere compared to RB.

Then you haven't seen the last few races.

Hamilton has been pretty close to Max and Lando and the Merc in his hands has lower deg than Max. I expect Hamilton to be in the mix for a win. If Hamilton can overcome his qualifying struggles, he will be up there with Max and Lando. Barcelona qualy already was an improvement vs previous races

[venkyhere]

I hope redbull fans , orange-army etc don't behave like diehard Tifosi/SilverArrow fans where not having WDC or WCC suddenly spells doom and gloom. Wining around 10 races in a 24 race season is 'not a failed season' I think.

I have a feeling that the dogfight of 2021, then winning 2022, absolute domination of 2023 has instilled a wrong perspective / set the wrong calibration of what a successful F1 team is and who a successful F1 driver is.

Even if there is no WDC or WCC for this team in 2024+2025 , if they finish runner up or 3rd even, it's not disaster. The driver would still be an accomplished, respected, feared, in-demand talent and so would the team.

To spell doom and gloom at the hint of some other team/driver performing better consistently is typical GenZ 'instant gratification, poor attention span' level impatient/petulant mindset. The team and driver have to set the bar high and aim for domination (that's the carrot at the end of the stick) , but that doesn't mean fans of the team/driver should set the same barometer for success.

Not imposing, just my opinion. Lots of team threads have knee jerk reactions. Hoping for less here.
Cheers.

[Xyz22]

With the engine penalties to come and the number of competitive teams, as well as Merc & Mclaren's rate of development.. big point swings can happen

Mercedes is not a serious threat right now. In race trim they are nowhere compared to RB.

Then you haven't seen the last few races.

Hamilton has been pretty close to Max and Lando and the Merc in his hands has lower deg than Max. I expect Hamilton to be in the mix for a win. If Hamilton can overcome his qualifying struggles, he will be up there with Max and Lando. Barcelona qualy already was an improvement vs previous races

Hamilton finished 17s behind Verstappen in Spain.

[organic]

I hope redbull fans , orange-army etc don't behave like diehard Tifosi/SilverArrow fans where not having WDC or WCC suddenly spells doom and gloom. Wining around 10 races in a 24 race season is 'not a failed season' I think.

I have a feeling that the dogfight of 2021, then winning 2022, absolute domination of 2023 has instilled a wrong perspective / set the wrong calibration of what a successful F1 team is and who a successful F1 driver is.

Even if there is no WDC or WCC for this team in 2024+2025 , if they finish runner up or 3rd even, it's not disaster. The driver would still be an accomplished, respected, feared, in-demand talent and so would the team.

I welcome the contribution that we shouldn't overreact and that fighting for victories rather than dominating is still great. And all teams are working tirelessly, so it's not a given that the team would continue to win

However I feel this is not acknowledging how the team has gone from dominating by >5 tenths advantage / lap in races to having what has been the 2nd fastest car over the last 5 races. Not acknowledging reality and the current trajectory is also not a good idea IMO

Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari have all made up multiple tenths on RB since Bahrain. In Mcl and Merc's cases over half a second per lap. What should we say? Business as usual ?

[venkyhere]

However I feel this is not acknowledging how the team has gone from dominating by >5 tenths advantage / lap in races to having what has been the 2nd fastest car over the last 5 races.

I wholeheartedly appreciate and acknowledge the professionalism of team and driver. I have immense respect.
But how long can we expect the domination to continue ? that too in a technology team sport, where, unlike other team sports, it's not enough if all members are hitting 100% of their ability on one particular D-day, they have to be doing so over 365 days of the year. There is no respite.

But they are all human, effort, concentration, motivation etc will ebb and flow, so it's perfectly natural that 'domination' doesn't last too long. Other teams will poach staff, other teams will have eureka moments, other drivers will step up their game - it's all par, right ?

That was the point I was making. It's ok if wins come with small margins, it's ok if every race isn't won. A podium is still valuable, not just P1.

The true meaning of "but we can only do what's in our control" really starts ringing in these moments - when domination comes to an end. I only hope for the team's sake, that they dont fall into the 'denial abyss' that Mercedes fell into, post Bahrain 2022. It took them 2 years, to finally come out of it and accept.

Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari have all made up multiple tenths on RB since Bahrain. In Mcl and Merc's cases over half a second per lap. What should we say? Business as usual ?

No, that's not what I meant.
It should be :
'yeah, lets find out why we are hitting the ceiling' ;
rather than :
'f$$k, I can't believe this, how can we have such a disaster, I didn't expect this, better I go to this/that team, rather than getting stuck in this disaster'.