Lollipop with mirror

[DaveKillens]

While watching the German GP, I noticed that the Ferrari lollipop was much larger than expected, and that one side was a convex mirror surface. During the pit stop, the lollipop is turned so that one surface shows with basic signs just to align the driver and to remind him of pit stop chores. Then about four seconds into the pit stop, the lollipop is reversed, so that the driver can directly observe the fuelling operationvia the mirror.
It all makes sense. This would allow the driver to view the fueling hose and men, and leave the instant when the fueller pulled the hose out of the car. That probably saves at least a half second, maybe more, because the driver doesn't have to wait for the lollipop man to signal him.
This is a good example of using something to shave precious time from the critical pit stops.
Look for all teams to quickly adopt this simple and effective measure.

[manchild]

Just wait until they introduce sensor that will release the clutch when the hose is detached...

[RH1300S]

I'm surprised other teams havn't already!

I can't say for sure when I first spotted this....2-3 races ago at least.

Great lateral thinking...........

[wrk]

or is it so the driver can see back up pit lane while the worker bees do there thing......


wayne.

[DaveKillens]

I don't think so, that mirror is there for just three or four seconds, not enough time to properly focus on much. But it would be sufficient for the driver to observe when the fuelling hose is pulled out of the car.
But I estimate this mirror lollipop can save as much as a half second, and in F1, that can easily spell the difference between a win and not making the podium.
And it should be a great safety asset. There are times when the driver pulls away, while the fuelling hose is still attached. And it's quite simple, the driver assumes the hose is withdrawn. But if he can directly observe the hose, then he just won't pull away until he sees that everything is clear.

[MuseF1]

Quote from Manchild

Just wait until they introduce sensor that will release the clutch when the hose is detached...

That wouldnt work... the clutch would be released when the fuel rig was taken off...but that would create problems if the rig was faulty when it was put on the car and they needed to switch it for the backup rig.
Also what if the front wing needed to be taken off? it takes longer to change the front wing then refuel the car.
I'm sure that there is probably a regulation that forbids this sort of system anyway...

[manchild]

Quote from Manchild

Just wait until they introduce sensor that will release the clutch when the hose is detached...

That wouldnt work... the clutch would be released when the fuel rig was taken off...but that would create problems if the rig was faulty when it was put on the car and they needed to switch it for the backup rig.
Also what if the front wing needed to be taken off? it takes longer to change the front wing then refuel the car.
I'm sure that there is probably a regulation that forbids this sort of system anyway...

It could work… This switch deactivated with hose should be connected on same electrical cable with clutch switch on the steering wheel.

CABLE - HOSE SWITCH - CABLE - CLUTCH SWITCH ON STEERING WHEEL - CABLE

That way releasing the clutch would be done once the hose is detached and/if when the driver releases it (driver would have override control). If everything is ok with the car and driver only waits for refueling to be finished than he could release his switch on the steering wheel, look forward or look at mirrors (instead of looking at the lolly mirror) and get launched instantly when the hose is pulled off.

This also means that driver couldn’t move the car at all until hose is properly detached and removed on safe distance (together with fuel guy).

Also, it could be simply activated by cord (just like parachutes), a short cord (steel or Kevlar) with a pin that would be inserted on appropriate hole/switch near the rig together with hose - deactivating the clutch by insertion.

When the hose is pulled off, the switch wouldn’t be activated until the fuel guy pulls hose away from the car (until the pin is pulled out by cord – activating the switch). This would prevent release of the clutch until the fuel guy until the fuel guy has moved safely backwards.

Instead of cord there could be switch with delay enabling fuel guy to pull back from the car (safety issue).

I haven’t seen ban on this in reg.

Perhaps I’m wrong…

[Guest]

Here is the pic.

[manchild]

That was me posting pic. without logging in, sorry

Naturally, there could be lever on the hose handle that would enable fuel guy to grip the pin preventing it from falling out while it is being brought towards car and inserted.

Once it is inserted, simple leaf spring would hold pin in pin jack just as it is done with headphones or mic. on audio systems...

In a nutshell, this is just a simple switch/push button that would break the electrical circuit between the clutch switch/pedal on the steering wheel and the system operating the clutch

[wrk]

its a bit late now but you should have patended the idea and sold it to all the F1 teams

go ask them how much would they pay to be 1 sec quicker in their pit stops?

you could have been a rich man!!!!!!


wayne.

[DaveKillens]

I agree, technically this could be done. But there are many reasons why this will never be implemented. But why not take it to the next level? Add wires under the tarmac to guide the car to a stop, so that for the final ten meters approaching the pit stop, an automated system takes control, guides the car on the correct path, and stops precisely at the correct spot? Then have a robotic arm do the hose insertion?
There are talks underway about new rules aimed at achieving certain goals, one of which is to have less aids, and more demands on driver ability. This system is outside of the control of the driver, and would probably be considered as an aid.
Additionally, since it removes all control from the driver, I'm sure the drivers would not like it. They would be sitting there, waiting for the car to lurch forward as the system engages the clutch. What if the clutch is dragging and the driver needs to apply brakes to hold the car stationary?
Since there is a good possibility of a stall, some system has to be also installed, to make the car pull away from the stop. Without the driver in the loop? I think not.
And there would have to be electrical switches very close to the fuelling apparatus, something that makes me nervous. One more source of ignition. Yes, you can make the switches explosion proof, and run a low voltage to minimize the risk, but that's no guarantee that it is perfect or foolproof.
And finally, just something else to go wrong. Every time you add parts or do anything additional to just running competitive laps, you add something to go wrong.

[manchild]

Dave,

It does not remove “all control from the driver”. I wrote that it is nothing but additional switch/push button located on same cable between clutch switch on the steering wheel and the clutch operating system. That means that instead of one there would be two circuit breakers on same cable and one of them would be as it is today – under drivers control. Both of them must be turned on in order to make the car start.

It could be considered not as “launcher” at all, but as a safety device preventing risk of fire and mechanical injuries to pit crew. In a way, it is one thing with two purposes without one excluding another.

There is almost no danger at all from electrical switch. Even electrical fuel pumps on production cars are nowadays all dipped into fuel tank. Risk of fire caused by exhaust or brakes on F1 is immeasurably greater.

I agree that more parts make more chance for something to go wrong but if they give the advantage that makes the difference and brings more points, victories and money than everyone would take the risk…

Just compare how complicated computerized sequential gearboxes are compared to manual gearboxes, still everyone use them because they give advantage. Modern steering wheels – over 20 buttons and switches compared to no buttons and switches at all (and that makes old steering wheels not a bit less functional).

[manchild]

its a bit late now but you should have patended the idea and sold it to all the F1 teams

go ask them how much would they pay to be 1 sec quicker in their pit stops?

you could have been a rich man!!!!!!


wayne.

I've done some patenting already and it takes so much time. In the same time, F1 teams are very hard to communicate/get in touch with…

[jaslfc]

what about this.. instead of the idea posted by manchild.. when the car comes into the pit.. he will be stationary.. when all the checks are made the lollipopman will notify the driver by raising the lollipop the driver will engage into first gear. instead of holding and releasing the hand clutch there is a secondary clutch system that is released when the fuel rig is released frm the car... then there wont be a problem with changing of the rig..because the driver will only engage into first gear when all other things is done and waiting for the fuel to fill up the tank what u think??

[manchild]

There is no need for "secondary clutch system".

With what I suggested driver has two options:

1. He can have the car in 1st gear and release clutch lever on the steering wheel as soon as the hose is attached and wait to be launched once hose is detached - el. circuit closed by second switch.

2. He can have the car in 1st gear and hold the clutch lever on the steering wheel and than launch when he chooses only after the hose is detached - second switch breaks the el. circuit and prevents driver from starting too soon (before the hose is detached).