2024 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 28 - 30

[SiLo]

This is awesome.

You can see Ferrari approaching, but leaving enough space to prevent any collision.

VER just body slams NOR.

Look at the position of Ver vs Norris and you will see how much more track is available

The track is between the white lines, not the curbs, the whatabout this and that is unbelievable!

Norris could be a meter inside the white line and the penalty would have been the same because he didn't change direction, he just held his line which is his right.

[ab_f1]

https://i.redd.it/6mrgslk89r9d1.gif
https://i.redd.it/s71kvlk89r9d1.gif

This is awesome.

You can see Ferrari approaching, but leaving enough space to prevent any collision.

VER just body slams NOR.

Look at the position of Ver vs Norris and you will see how much more track is available

The point of contact is much further down into the corner as compared to Lec. LEC took racing line and turned right much earlier. VER
on the other hand kept turning left much further into the track. There is almost a car length where LEC moved right and VER keeps pushing left.
Shows intent. Lec did not show intent to push his competitor out

[Vanja #66]

And if the only way to move is off the track, that's OK, is it? Basically saying that the approaching driver can do what he likes and everyone else has to sort it out around him. I.e. Max can do no wrong. Hint: crowding a driver off track like you propose is specifically mentioned in the code as being wrong.

The point you raise is moot honestly, plenty of examples where attacking driver was pushed outside over the curbs with 2 wheels on approach and stewards do nothing - because that's racing. The issue here came with collision, where both of them were at fault. Verstappen said he is careful to change his direction just before he gets on brakes years ago, but he did change direction multiple times in their skirmish. Norris didn't want to move when he had enough room and there was contact.

[bluechris]

Come on guys, we really discuss why Norris didn't went on curb to avoid max? Really? Why a driver when he is bullied must do that? This joke must stop and all must drive respectfully.
It's FIA fault 100% that this goes on for many years with Max and whoever is doing the same and something must happen soon.

[chrisc90]

 
What people are forgetting that in the run up to turn 3,  you actually have the kerb as part of the track.   Because your outside/left hand wheels are on the white line,  doesnt mean that is the edge of the track.    Edge of the track, IMHO, would become as far left as you can take it,  without your right hand wheels crossing the line.  
 
You would actually end up with something like this (oscar qualifying track limits flipped image)

 
I would say that this would be Max forcing Lando off the track in this example.  (excuse my photoshop skillz)
 

 
I think its harsh to say that Max never left room for Lando there.  Probably why the stewards said that it was causing a collision in their report rather than forcing another driver off track.

[Hoffman900]

 
What people are forgetting that in the run up to turn 3,  you actually have the kerb as part of the track.   Because your outside/left hand wheels are on the white line,  doesnt mean that is the edge of the track.    Edge of the track, IMHO, would become as far left as you can take it,  without your right hand wheels crossing the line.  
 
You would actually end up with something like this (oscar qualifying track limits flipped image)

 
I would say that this would be Max forcing Lando off the track in this example.  (excuse my photoshop skillz)
 

 
I think its harsh to say that Max never left room for Lando there.  Probably why the stewards said that it was causing a collision in their report rather than forcing another driver off track.

He didn’t force him off the track because Lando stayed on the track.

It shouldn’t be “drive off the track or we collide”. That is in itself THE problem the FIA has enabled.

[chrisc90]

He didn’t force him off the track because Lando stayed on the track.

It shouldn’t be “drive off the track or we collide”. That is in itself THE problem the FIA has enabled.

The comment from me is about the people claiming that Max didnt leave Lando enough room on the left. Which there was more than enough room as pointed out - if you take the actual limits of the track into account with the full car being over the white line. Which F1 does.

[FW17]

Come on guys, we really discuss why Norris didn't went on curb to avoid max? Really? Why a driver when he is bullied must do that? This joke must stop and all must drive respectfully.
It's FIA fault 100% that this goes on for many years with Max and whoever what is doing the same and something must happen soon.

It is not about bullying. It is about having a faster car and using it to get in front of the opponent. Max has been overtaken quiet a few times, Lando could have been more methodical in his approach on a track with 3 DRS zones.

Bully or not he had to get past and getting into an avoidable contact is not the way to do it. Yes may win a PR war or a stewart penalty, but not on track.

[mrsweet]

This is also imho dragging in the whole track limits argument which noone really wants to deal with. Because by track limits argument, Max can go all the way to within inches of the white line and still leave room for Lando. If all one needs to stay 'on the track' is a whisper of ones inside tyre then that is also a cars width of space.

When Max is being pushed for championship contention or race wins on merit, he resorts to bully tactics. Same as Hamilton, same as Schumacher. If anyone dares race him with the same consideration that he is giving, they crash. That's not racing.

[AR3-GP]

Come on guys, we really discuss why Norris didn't went on curb to avoid max? Really? Why a driver when he is bullied must do that? This joke must stop and all must drive respectfully.
It's FIA fault 100% that this goes on for many years with Max and whoever what is doing the same and something must happen soon.

Last year, Verstappen vs Sainz:

[Hoffman900]

Come on guys, we really discuss why Norris didn't went on curb to avoid max? Really? Why a driver when he is bullied must do that? This joke must stop and all must drive respectfully.
It's FIA fault 100% that this goes on for many years with Max and whoever what is doing the same and something must happen soon.

Last year, Verstappen vs Sainz:

https://i.redd.it/6mrgslk89r9d1.gif

These incidents are both wrong. Two wrongs don’t make a right. You should have been taught this as a toddler.

This is on the FIA for not stamping this out.

[AR3-GP]

Come on guys, we really discuss why Norris didn't went on curb to avoid max? Really? Why a driver when he is bullied must do that? This joke must stop and all must drive respectfully.
It's FIA fault 100% that this goes on for many years with Max and whoever what is doing the same and something must happen soon.

Last year, Verstappen vs Sainz:

https://i.redd.it/6mrgslk89r9d1.gif

These incidents are both wrong. Two wrongs don’t make a right. You should have been taught this as a toddler.

This is on the FIA for not stamping this out.

There's no issue with saying both are wrong. The problem is people thinking Verstappen is the first person to do this and only having something to say when Verstappen does it.

Verstappen is again showing a bit more clever than Norris in situations if you compare the outcomes from 2023 and 2024. It's a bit like what Vanja said earlier. You are going to be faced with situations like this that may be seen as unfair. Even still, there are still ways to outsmart your competition.

[FW17]

This is also imho dragging in the whole track limits argument which noone really wants to deal with. Because by track limits argument, Max can go all the way to within inches of the white line and still leave room for Lando.

Kerbs are part of the track, grass and gravel are not.

[JordanMugen]

Norris didn't want to move when he had enough room and there was contact.

Come on guys, we really discuss why Norris didn't went on curb to avoid max? Really?

Excellent point. Why should Norris avoid the contact?

Surely Verstappen should also be motivated to avoid contact and avoid damaging race cars?

According to the stewards it was Verstappen and not Norris who was predominantly in the wrong after all.

Peter Windsor seems to blame DRS, which is quite true too. If Verstappen was racing his Escort and Norris his 2002 at Goodwood historic touring cars, would they really be so careless as to push other cars onto the grass and not leave enough space so as to risk damage?!

I guess (fortunately fr Verstappen) Mk1 Escort coupe pressings are still available brand new, whereas Norris might have more trouble sourcing or coachbuilding replacement 2002ti panels!

Verstappen is again showing a bit more clever than Norris in situations if you compare the outcomes from 2023 and 2024. It's a bit like what Vanja said earlier. You are going to be faced with situations like this that may be seen as unfair. Even still, there are still ways to outsmart your competition.

Surely keeping your race car intact is more important!

Would Sir Jack Brabham really race as Norris or Verstappen did?

[Mattchu]

Since when have the curbs been part of the actual track!
The curbs are there as tactile and visual elements to help a driver demarcate the track boundaries. Say this was a huge sausage curb which bounces the car in the air and potentially causes damage, would that have been OK...

The track is between the white lines, no ifs or buts!

They only just touched, the trouble (imo) is these stupid Maybach like cars!