Concept power units from 2030

[Zynerji]

On the other hand, isn't this not entirely dead weight?

The front motor is also used to harvest energy when it’s not deploying energy, right?

That wan't suggested, neither was a rear motor to use the energy.

In that, I may not have been clear enough.

I am still deciding between hub motors or just a single motor on the front axle.

I think the latter brings the least complexity and also, less is more. But won't this require too many adjustments to the chassis?

How about:

A longinally oriented 400hp electric motor that connects to a vector differential mounted in the front and the rear, with a twin pulse-jet (or the Rocket exhaust) MGUH turbocharger as a generator with a small buffer ultracapacitor bank to smooth the system? Keep the carbon brakes and such, but 605KG seems like a real possibility again, and the noise is back.

[mzso]

On the other hand, isn't this not entirely dead weight?

The front motor is also used to harvest energy when it’s not deploying energy, right?

That wan't suggested, neither was a rear motor to use the energy.

In that, I may not have been clear enough.

I am still deciding between hub motors or just a single motor on the front axle.

I think the latter brings the least complexity and also, less is more. But won't this require too many adjustments to the chassis?

You didn't mention a rear motor. And without that you can only only use it in that narrow window you described.

Hub motors are heavier, if they're direct drive. If they use planetary gears or something, I don't know.

[mzso]

That wan't suggested, neither was a rear motor to use the energy.

In that, I may not have been clear enough.

I am still deciding between hub motors or just a single motor on the front axle.

I think the latter brings the least complexity and also, less is more. But won't this require too many adjustments to the chassis?

How about:

A longinally oriented 400hp electric motor that connects to a vector differential mounted in the front and the rear, with a twin pulse-jet (or the Rocket exhaust) MGUH turbocharger as a generator with a small buffer ultracapacitor bank to smooth the system? Keep the carbon brakes and such, but 605KG seems like a real possibility again, and the noise is back.

Somehow things always turn into rockets with you.
I doubt that setup could be lighter that piston engine cars. You'd need a lot more electric capacity, for generation, and for drive. Plus the capacitors' weight. And whatever your jet engine weighs.

[Zynerji]

In that, I may not have been clear enough.

I am still deciding between hub motors or just a single motor on the front axle.

I think the latter brings the least complexity and also, less is more. But won't this require too many adjustments to the chassis?

How about:

A longinally oriented 400hp electric motor that connects to a vector differential mounted in the front and the rear, with a twin pulse-jet (or the Rocket exhaust) MGUH turbocharger as a generator with a small buffer ultracapacitor bank to smooth the system? Keep the carbon brakes and such, but 605KG seems like a real possibility again, and the noise is back.

Somehow things always turn into rockets with you.
I doubt that setup could be lighter that piston engine cars. You'd need a lot more electric capacity, for generation, and for drive. Plus the capacitors' weight. And whatever your jet engine weighs.

Meh. Turbo-Electric generator driving electric motors is the future. Especially with CNG or synth fuel.

I don't for a moment believe that it would be heavier than the current setup, as the MGUH and MGUK parts are already on these cars. Adding another of each with a small ultra-capacitor buffer pack and deleting the ICE/transmission and the battery pack would quickly drop 200kg... I wouldn't expect ANY electrical regen in this system. All 100k RPM turbo-jet sound and 800whp with vector drive. Why wouldn't you want that!?!?

[DenBommer]

How about:

A longinally oriented 400hp electric motor that connects to a vector differential mounted in the front and the rear, with a twin pulse-jet (or the Rocket exhaust) MGUH turbocharger as a generator with a small buffer ultracapacitor bank to smooth the system? Keep the carbon brakes and such, but 605KG seems like a real possibility again, and the noise is back.

Somehow things always turn into rockets with you.
I doubt that setup could be lighter that piston engine cars. You'd need a lot more electric capacity, for generation, and for drive. Plus the capacitors' weight. And whatever your jet engine weighs.

Meh. Turbo-Electric generator driving electric motors is the future. Especially with CNG or synth fuel.

I don't for a moment believe that it would be heavier than the current setup, as the MGUH and MGUK parts are already on these cars. Adding another of each with a small ultra-capacitor buffer pack and deleting the ICE/transmission and the battery pack would quickly drop 200kg... I wouldn't expect ANY electrical regen in this system. All 100k RPM turbo-jet sound and 800whp with vector drive. Why wouldn't you want that!?!?

And would such a longitudinally oriented electric motor fit into the chassis of an F1 car without too many adjustments/changes? So that the car still retains its DNA?

I always find your ideas well thought out and innovative. But why are you so convinced of that concept?

General Electric seems to follow your mindset, I think: https://www.army-technology.com/data-in ... injectors/

Does anyone happen to know what they plan to do with this?

[Tommy Cookers]

photovoltaic drones
patents - not product


this vector drive doesn't make sense to me
seems to involve using grip that isn't there and not using grip that is there

[Zynerji]

photovoltaic drones
patents - not product


this vector drive doesn't make sense to me
seems to involve using grip that isn't there and not using grip that is there

Any form of platform manipulation that is directly under the drivers' control increases the talent necessary to be good. Putting variable triggers on the wheel for the driver to control the wheel vectoring only makes the driver a higher % of the performance metric. I don't understand the with/without grip statement? The driver would have to match the vector deployment with steering angle in order for the system to be fully taken advantage of. I think that is a great thing as it separates talent.

[Zynerji]

Somehow things always turn into rockets with you.
I doubt that setup could be lighter that piston engine cars. You'd need a lot more electric capacity, for generation, and for drive. Plus the capacitors' weight. And whatever your jet engine weighs.

Meh. Turbo-Electric generator driving electric motors is the future. Especially with CNG or synth fuel.

I don't for a moment believe that it would be heavier than the current setup, as the MGUH and MGUK parts are already on these cars. Adding another of each with a small ultra-capacitor buffer pack and deleting the ICE/transmission and the battery pack would quickly drop 200kg... I wouldn't expect ANY electrical regen in this system. All 100k RPM turbo-jet sound and 800whp with vector drive. Why wouldn't you want that!?!?

And would such a longitudinally oriented electric motor fit into the chassis of an F1 car without too many adjustments/changes? So that the car still retains its DNA?

I always find your ideas well thought out and innovative. But why are you so convinced of that concept?

General Electric seems to follow your mindset, I think: https://www.army-technology.com/data-in ... injectors/

Does anyone happen to know what they plan to do with this?

I would expect that the cars would be very similar with only the cockpit moving rearward on plan form to allow an extra 600mm or so to put the motor/diff between the front axle line and the drivers' feet.

[DenBommer]

Meh. Turbo-Electric generator driving electric motors is the future. Especially with CNG or synth fuel.

I don't for a moment believe that it would be heavier than the current setup, as the MGUH and MGUK parts are already on these cars. Adding another of each with a small ultra-capacitor buffer pack and deleting the ICE/transmission and the battery pack would quickly drop 200kg... I wouldn't expect ANY electrical regen in this system. All 100k RPM turbo-jet sound and 800whp with vector drive. Why wouldn't you want that!?!?

And would such a longitudinally oriented electric motor fit into the chassis of an F1 car without too many adjustments/changes? So that the car still retains its DNA?

I always find your ideas well thought out and innovative. But why are you so convinced of that concept?

General Electric seems to follow your mindset, I think: https://www.army-technology.com/data-in ... injectors/

Does anyone happen to know what they plan to do with this?

I would expect that the cars would be very similar with only the cockpit moving rearward on plan form to allow an extra 600mm or so to put the motor/diff between the front axle line and the drivers' feet.

And why are you convinced of this motor configuration, if I may ask?(Turbocharger, MGU-H, turbojet,…)

[mzso]

How about:

A longinally oriented 400hp electric motor that connects to a vector differential mounted in the front and the rear, with a twin pulse-jet (or the Rocket exhaust) MGUH turbocharger as a generator with a small buffer ultracapacitor bank to smooth the system? Keep the carbon brakes and such, but 605KG seems like a real possibility again, and the noise is back.

Somehow things always turn into rockets with you.
I doubt that setup could be lighter that piston engine cars. You'd need a lot more electric capacity, for generation, and for drive. Plus the capacitors' weight. And whatever your jet engine weighs.

Meh. Turbo-Electric generator driving electric motors is the future. Especially with CNG or synth fuel.

I don't for a moment believe that it would be heavier than the current setup, as the MGUH and MGUK parts are already on these cars. Adding another of each with a small ultra-capacitor buffer pack and deleting the ICE/transmission and the battery pack would quickly drop 200kg... I wouldn't expect ANY electrical regen in this system. All 100k RPM turbo-jet sound and 800whp with vector drive. Why wouldn't you want that!?!?

How do you convince yourself of such things?

Maybe it wouldn't be heavier than current cars but not likely to be near as light as plain piston powered cars.
Not having regen is just a pointless waste. And a gasturbine is an ICE with weight.
Plus super capacitor, have worse energy density than batteries.
I don't think what you imagined is possible.

[wuzak]

How about:

A longinally oriented 400hp electric motor that connects to a vector differential mounted in the front and the rear, with a twin pulse-jet (or the Rocket exhaust) MGUH turbocharger as a generator with a small buffer ultracapacitor bank to smooth the system? Keep the carbon brakes and such, but 605KG seems like a real possibility again, and the noise is back.

Somehow things always turn into rockets with you.
I doubt that setup could be lighter that piston engine cars. You'd need a lot more electric capacity, for generation, and for drive. Plus the capacitors' weight. And whatever your jet engine weighs.

Meh. Turbo-Electric generator driving electric motors is the future. Especially with CNG or synth fuel.

I don't for a moment believe that it would be heavier than the current setup, as the MGUH and MGUK parts are already on these cars. Adding another of each with a small ultra-capacitor buffer pack and deleting the ICE/transmission and the battery pack would quickly drop 200kg... I wouldn't expect ANY electrical regen in this system. All 100k RPM turbo-jet sound and 800whp with vector drive. Why wouldn't you want that!?!?

ICE + MGUK + Battey for 2026 is to be 185kg.

Gearbox is about 25kg.

The 2026 MGUK is 359kW/470hp. And weighs 16kg.

You need 2 of them for your 800hp.

And then you need a 800hp MGUK to generate the power for the 2 x 400hp drive motors. That's going to weigh more.

And of course you need the "twin pulse-jet (or the Rocket exhaust) MGUH turbocharger", which won't be weightless.

The turbo for 2026 has a minimum weight of 12kg, and that is similar size to the current turbos, if not smaller. And they maybe recover 69-90kW. You want one that recovers roughly 8 times that.

CNG? Need a heavy pressure vessel for that.

You will save some weight from cooling the ICE and battery, but need more cooling for motors.

[Zynerji]

And would such a longitudinally oriented electric motor fit into the chassis of an F1 car without too many adjustments/changes? So that the car still retains its DNA?

I always find your ideas well thought out and innovative. But why are you so convinced of that concept?

General Electric seems to follow your mindset, I think: https://www.army-technology.com/data-in ... injectors/

Does anyone happen to know what they plan to do with this?

I would expect that the cars would be very similar with only the cockpit moving rearward on plan form to allow an extra 600mm or so to put the motor/diff between the front axle line and the drivers' feet.

And why are you convinced of this motor configuration, if I may ask?(Turbocharger, MGU-H, turbojet,…)

Efficiency. Current cars are 52ish% efficient (amazing actually!), and they deserve the utmost respect.

I just kinda believe the gas turbine -> mguh -> mguk to just be the pinnacle of combustion locomotive efficiency, and this idea of mine is based upon that belief.

As always, I can be convinced otherwise with some good math and explaining if I'm incorrect, however. So please feel free to make the attempt.

[Zynerji]

Somehow things always turn into rockets with you.
I doubt that setup could be lighter that piston engine cars. You'd need a lot more electric capacity, for generation, and for drive. Plus the capacitors' weight. And whatever your jet engine weighs.

Meh. Turbo-Electric generator driving electric motors is the future. Especially with CNG or synth fuel.

I don't for a moment believe that it would be heavier than the current setup, as the MGUH and MGUK parts are already on these cars. Adding another of each with a small ultra-capacitor buffer pack and deleting the ICE/transmission and the battery pack would quickly drop 200kg... I wouldn't expect ANY electrical regen in this system. All 100k RPM turbo-jet sound and 800whp with vector drive. Why wouldn't you want that!?!?

How do you convince yourself of such things?

Maybe it wouldn't be heavier than current cars but not likely to be near as light as plain piston powered cars.
Not having regen is just a pointless waste. And a gasturbine is an ICE with weight.
Plus super capacitor, have worse energy density than batteries.
I don't think what you imagined is possible.

You literally are removing 95KG by deleting the entire ICE component.

Not having regen allows for zero battery weight with a 25ish % claw back by the addition of a small ultracapicitor bank for smoothing out the electrical flow to the motors.

Ive heard that my entire professional career, and have proven otherwise countless times.

[Zynerji]

Somehow things always turn into rockets with you.
I doubt that setup could be lighter that piston engine cars. You'd need a lot more electric capacity, for generation, and for drive. Plus the capacitors' weight. And whatever your jet engine weighs.

Meh. Turbo-Electric generator driving electric motors is the future. Especially with CNG or synth fuel.

I don't for a moment believe that it would be heavier than the current setup, as the MGUH and MGUK parts are already on these cars. Adding another of each with a small ultra-capacitor buffer pack and deleting the ICE/transmission and the battery pack would quickly drop 200kg... I wouldn't expect ANY electrical regen in this system. All 100k RPM turbo-jet sound and 800whp with vector drive. Why wouldn't you want that!?!?

ICE + MGUK + Battey for 2026 is to be 185kg.

Gearbox is about 25kg.

The 2026 MGUK is 359kW/470hp. And weighs 16kg.

You need 2 of them for your 800hp.

And then you need a 800hp MGUK to generate the power for the 2 x 400hp drive motors. That's going to weigh more.

And of course you need the "twin pulse-jet (or the Rocket exhaust) MGUH turbocharger", which won't be weightless.

The turbo for 2026 has a minimum weight of 12kg, and that is similar size to the current turbos, if not smaller. And they maybe recover 69-90kW. You want one that recovers roughly 8 times that.

CNG? Need a heavy pressure vessel for that.

You will save some weight from cooling the ICE and battery, but need more cooling for motors.

SO, 2026 is 185kg+25kg for a total of 210kg?

So, 2 MGUK@16kg, 2 Turbos @12kg, 2 MGUH@18kg(approx) and 2 VectorDifferentials@15kg (approx) and an ultracap bank@15kg(approx) = 137kg. Even if the Jet exhaust combustion chamber is 8kg, and the carbon pressure fuel tanks for CNG are 10kg, you are still at 165kg all-in. Then you also get the benefit of much smaller cooling needs/components.

It seems to me to be more power and 100kg in weight savings. As well as adding the driver skill-control of the manual vector differentials. Thats 940hp + the thrust of the jet exhaust as well!

[DenBommer]

I would expect that the cars would be very similar with only the cockpit moving rearward on plan form to allow an extra 600mm or so to put the motor/diff between the front axle line and the drivers' feet.

And why are you convinced of this motor configuration, if I may ask?(Turbocharger, MGU-H, turbojet,…)

Efficiency. Current cars are 52ish% efficient (amazing actually!), and they deserve the utmost respect.

I just kinda believe the gas turbine -> mguh -> mguk to just be the pinnacle of combustion locomotive efficiency, and this idea of mine is based upon that belief.

As always, I can be convinced otherwise with some good math and explaining if I'm incorrect, however. So please feel free to make the attempt.

I definitely won't start on that.

I would actually like to see your ideas come to life.

However, I don't see it happening anytime soon. Mainly because it’s a completely different concept that also requires different personnel/engineers.

On the other hand, 25 years ago, they wouldn't have thought we would be racing with hybrid cars and that there would be an electric racing class now.

Edit: pulsejet over RDE?