2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[chrisc90]

can anyone explain how Perez went from a second slower than Max to being competitive as him in race at least .is it all down to rear stability.

Yeah. Perez prefers a bit of understeer. Which is what the car is doing now

[Bill]

so what preventing them from finding setup that suit both drivers.five races have been wasted.

[willmesquita]

Guys, is that true the upgrade has targeted to give more rear stability to turn the RB20 more ok to Perez style?

not sure if the aim was to help Perez, but judging by this video it seems that indeed it gave more rear stability, maybe even too much as Max says (we know he prefers a strong front end)

Thank's, I just saw that Gary Anderson's analysis:

"There are two possible reasons for this. One is that flexing the outboard end, which actually produces very little front downforce at speed, was not as big a drop-off in front downforce as required to balance the car, and the car was still too pointy in the fast corners.

This would lead to backing off the front wing angle to get the high speed balance and then the car would have too much understeer in slow and medium speed corners.

We know that Sergio Perez can’t really handle a car that is pointy in high-speed corners, so this modification is logical, at least for him. Verstappen can live with it to a certain extent."

https://www.the-race.com/f1/gary-anders ... g-upgrade/

[bluechris]

so what preventing them from finding setup that suit both drivers.five races have been wasted.

Its really dificult to achieve that. The fast way of driving is what Max,Leclerc,Norris and Hamilton likes, everything else with stable rear etc are slow. Max is the best in this but the car needs to be with him.
This is why in a team you need 2 similar drivers as matter what they like.

[rijtuig]

Sky f1 is unbearable to listen to, a sports channel simply cannot spend whole races bashing on a driver with cheap jokes as if they are the guys down at the pub. The constant jokes about "maybe he's cranky from lack of sleep", "maybe his head is just not here", "maybe he should sleep more", "maybe he wants to go back to his games", what a --- show of a comentary team these guys can be sometimes. Also failing to notice how Verstappen was 100% pushed off the track at the start, looking at haminton turn into someone and failing to notice that, etc etc etc.

I have the same feeling with Dutch television. Unbelievable how much they bash other drivers, especially Hamilton!

[Wouter]

Sky f1 is unbearable to listen to, a sports channel simply cannot spend whole races bashing on a driver with cheap jokes as if they are the guys down at the pub. The constant jokes about "maybe he's cranky from lack of sleep", "maybe his head is just not here", "maybe he should sleep more", "maybe he wants to go back to his games", what a --- show of a comentary team these guys can be sometimes. Also failing to notice how Verstappen was 100% pushed off the track at the start, looking at haminton turn into someone and failing to notice that, etc etc etc.

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I have the same feeling with Dutch television. Unbelievable how much they bash other drivers, especially Hamilton!

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Are you talking about ViaPlay who broadcasts the F1 or Ziggo where they talk after a race?

[rijtuig]

Don't recall which one it was, I just know I don't watch it anymore after all the crap they were spitting.

[basti313]

Yes agree 2009 it was similar, Brawn GP being a dominant force in the first part of the season and then slowly falling behind the Red Bull. Button just did enough to bring the WDC home. I also think right after Spa "the real circuit" we will know more what to expect later in the season.

Yep...if they do not keep the points together, McLaren will loose it in the same way.

I am not so sure on Spa:

well Spa is quite unique among the remaining tracks, it could very well be that RB wins there but then McLaren will have the edge in the majority of the rest

I think we will have to admit that McLaren will be faster in most of remaining races

If we look at the remaining races, we have Spore, Baku, Vegas, Katar, Monza?....there is more tracks I would not call "usual", these are all tracks very likely for outlier winners.
I fear if it would be tracks like Stone and Barcelona, it would be McLaren all over. But I think every race will be interesting.

[Wouter]

Don't recall which one it was, I just know I don't watch it anymore after all the crap they were spitting.

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The two reporters from ViaPlay are very enthousiastic and excited about every driver and every great move a driver makes.
So this couldn't be ViaPlay, the official F1 broadcaster you are talking about. Sometimes they are too enthousiast!

[DDopey]

Sky f1 is unbearable to listen to, a sports channel simply cannot spend whole races bashing on a driver with cheap jokes as if they are the guys down at the pub. The constant jokes about "maybe he's cranky from lack of sleep", "maybe his head is just not here", "maybe he should sleep more", "maybe he wants to go back to his games", what a --- show of a comentary team these guys can be sometimes. Also failing to notice how Verstappen was 100% pushed off the track at the start, looking at haminton turn into someone and failing to notice that, etc etc etc.

Although I agree that sky f1 is annoyingly biased. I found Max also unbearable to listen to yesterday. Show a bit of class, I understand, in the heat of racing you will not always communicate in the most nuanced way. But this went on and on. If you dont want to be in RB anymore, then go away. But this is an attitude that I do not respect, the team gave him so much, acting in this way is just poor human behaviour. And this from someone who has always been cheering for him.

[Emag]

Its how Max has always been, I dont see why anyone is surprised. If you win races comfortably with little effort there is no reason to be upset, so nobody saw that side of him for a while.

He has proven to be a hypocrite a long time ago, doing the same things he criticizes other drivers for but expects different treatment when he does them himself.

Divebombing and locking up and he blames the car in front for almost taking him out. Ridiculous.

But he gets away with it, because the FIA has never punished nor done anything to indicate that they would demand cleaner racing from drivers in the pinnacle of motorsport.

Not Max's fault though. Why change an approach when you're not being punished for it. The only downside is that once in a while you will come across drivers like Lewis who won't back out to make way for you.

[DDopey]

Its how Max has always been, I dont see why anyone is surprised. If you win races comfortably with little effort there is no reason to be upset, so nobody saw that side of him for a while.

He has proven to be a hypocrite a long time ago, doing the same things he criticizes other drivers for but expects different treatment when he does them himself.

Divebombing and locking up and he blames the car in front for almost taking him out. Ridiculous.

But he gets away with it, because the FIA has never punished nor done anything to indicate that they would demand cleaner racing from drivers in the pinnacle of motorsport.

Not Max's fault though. Why change an approach when you're not being punished for it. The only downside is that once in a while you will come across drivers like Lewis who won't back out to make way for you.

My post was a reflection on how Max behaved on Sunday. I do not think Max drives more aggressive than other drivers in the same context. I have seen Lewis cry more over the last few years than Max, who just occasionally had his outbursts. So do not take my comment as a judgement of character, it was a judgement of behaviour on Sunday.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

can anyone explain how Perez went from a second slower than Max to being competitive as him in race at least .is it all down to rear stability.

Yeah. Perez prefers a bit of understeer. Which is what the car is doing now

When the car is better suited for Perez, this is the result: the car is unable to win. No wonder they have relied on Verstappen's style over the years.

[Sergej]

in principle, adding downforce at the rear is not a bad thing, it improves stability, traction, tyre management

in this case, as Max suggests, they overdid and unbalanced the car towards the rear, but maybe this can be corrected via setup

[AR3-GP]

in principle, adding downforce at the rear is not a bad thing, it improves stability, traction, tyre management

in this case, as Max suggests, they overdid and unbalanced the car towards the rear, but maybe this can be corrected via setup

There are a lot of things that can make future races different. Remember that in Hungary they used their Monaco rear wing. We won't see that rear wing again until Singapore, and not again after that.

There was a problem like this in 2022. In all the high load rear wing races, the car had too much understeer, but in the medium and low load rear wing races, the car had a good balance and was competitive.

The result of Hungary doesn't predict the rest of the season. Max is frustrated but he is not an engineer. A bad race in Hungary of all circuits does not predict the rest of the season.

Also, I don't think they made the right setup changes on Friday evening because on Friday in similar temperatures to the race, the car wasn't understeering in the long runs. The front was very responsive in S2 and the final corner. Only in the race did I notice the car having a very unresponsive front. There is plenty for them to take away to understand how to run the updated car. Hungary is not a statistically significant result. The package needs to be evaluated over a variety of circuits.