2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Xyz22]

https://formu1a.uno/it/vasseur-la-direz ... -la-sosta/

"Here we were fighting for the podium, we fought with Mercedes and Red Bull, but we still lack a bit of pace to compete with McLaren."

"In 2023 we finished 65 seconds behind Red Bull, now we are 20 seconds behind McLaren. It is not enough, but it is progress."

No delusion here, he's still keeping it real. Besides that, I think Ferrari will be battling McLaren next weekend slightly behind the Mercedes. Mercedes has been dumping drag since a few races and have a well balanced car when it's not hot. McLaren are quite draggy and will fall towards the Ferrari at the end of the stints.

Ferrari is nowhere in fast corners. Moreover, McLaren improved massively since the upgrade package in Miami in terms of efficiency.

Ferrari won't fight with McLaren.

Also Vasseur is redirecting the narrative. It's true that compared to last Ferrari improved and the gap was much smaller from the leader but the real issue is that the relative performance decreased massively since Monaco. In Imola for example Ferrari was ahead of Mercedes and "only" 7s behind the leaders.

Silverstone was a massacre and in Austria Sainz would have finished over 20s behind in a normal race.

Ferrari lost their main path in development, that is for sure. We are too much delusional in this thread though: without the incredible improvement of McLaren and Mercedes we would be talking about Ferrari and RedBull being on the same pace and fighting for victory.

F1 is always relative. If the others improve more it means they did a better job.
The goal this season was to improve the car and deliver a solid performance through the year with consistent improvements. Ferrari failed once again to do that despite RB vulnerability.

Moreover we are still seeing crazy and insane strategy calls like the one in Silverstone and this one yesterday. Also the 3(4) stops strategy in Austria was also extremely questionable.

[.Bole]

Am I the only one concerned with Vasseur's growing delusion? I mean, he's becoming Binotto 2.0 by the end of the season

https://formu1a.uno/it/vasseur-la-direz ... -la-sosta/

"Here we were fighting for the podium, we fought with Mercedes and Red Bull, but we still lack a bit of pace to compete with McLaren."

"In 2023 we finished 65 seconds behind Red Bull, now we are 20 seconds behind McLaren. It is not enough, but it is progress."

No delusion here, he's still keeping it real. Besides that, I think Ferrari will be battling McLaren next weekend slightly behind the Mercedes. Mercedes has been dumping drag since a few races and have a well balanced car when it's not hot. McLaren are quite draggy and will fall towards the Ferrari at the end of the stints.

Ferrari is nowhere in fast corners. Moreover, McLaren improved massively since the upgrade package in Miami in terms of efficiency.

Ferrari won't fight with McLaren.

Also Vasseur is redirecting the narrative. It's true that compared to last year Ferrari improved and the gap was much smaller from the leader but the real issue is that the relative performance decreased massively since Monaco. In Imola for example Ferrari was ahead of Mercedes and "only" 7s behind the leaders.

Silverstone was a massacre and in Austria Sainz would have finished over 20s behind in a normal race.

Not just that but missing the point how much further other teams developed comapred to us.
But thats as always shifting goalposts, classic pr tactic or presenting negative stuff in different context to light them as positive

[Xyz22]

Let's see the final upgrade package they will bring around Singapore, according to recent reports.

Still an opportunity to do well and make things at least a little bit better.

[Space-heat]

Let's see the final upgrade package they will bring around Singapore, according to recent reports.

Still an opportunity to do well and make things at least a little bit better.

Sainz seemed to suggest something would come after Dutch GP.

“I don’t think we can bring it for Spa or the first race after the summer break, but hopefully soon after that we will come up with something, and that will close the gap and we can get back in the fight.”

https://formu1a.uno/en/sainz-frustrated ... -position/

I do hope they are still bring the suspension adjustment to SPA. If they have abandoned that, it reads like Ferrari are a little unsure on their direction. Fred is saying the bouncing has been solved but Charles (post race) and Carlos (post qualifying) said they still have bouncing even with the stiffer new floor. Spa will probably be a down race realistically.

[Vanja #66]

Trying to be the voice of reason is a losing battle in this thread for a while now, but here goes. After 4 very challenging races, here are the positives:

- Leclerc (faster of the two in this race) had a compromised Stint 1 behind Hamilton and still didn't lose too much time once released
- his lap L22 was 0.2 slower than Piastri's L17 which is lap before in-lap for both, which is quite good concerning 5 laps older tyres and losing tyres behind Hamilton
- Stint 2 on Hards was by far the best of any car and it was a shame the strategy call was what it was (it was a worthy risk, btw, track position is premium)
- Sainz' stint 3 was very good and better than Piastri's before he caught up with Leclerc and later Max
- this stint is likely 0.2s a lap slower than what Leclerc would have been able to do without strategy risk he took, based on first two stints between the two of them
- overall, Leclerc had the pace for an easy P3 and gap to winning McLaren would have been 8-10s with Hamilton's track position and intended strategy of M-H-M with 20-22 laps on Mediums as intended
- Leclerc was easily on par with Max' pace and at most 0.2s a lap slower than McLaren yesterday - which is by far the best pace since Monaco

Negatives:
- like last year, final two corners is where Ferrari lost the most time in the race compared to all 3 competitor cars, but they were the fastest in S1 and S2 during the race - I guess they had understeer in these two long slow corners and would probably benefit from more front wing flap and more flexing (like McLaren and Merc) to keep the medium and high-speed balance as is
- the car suffers in Q pace and is not as flexible as other cars when there's a bigger difference between Q and R ambient and track temperatures, this is a suspension issue that definitely needs to be resolved permanently for future cars
- the car seems to still be front-limited and they still have the room to increase front wing planform surface but for some reason they don't

Spa will be a tough test for the car and bouncing and if the order is the same as in Hungary (weather permitting) it will be a very good job from Maranello and post-Silverstone floor tweaks.

[f1316]

Trying to be the voice of reason is a losing battle in this thread for a while now, but here goes. After 4 very challenging races, here are the positives:

- Leclerc (faster of the two in this race) had a compromised Stint 1 behind Hamilton and still didn't lose too much time once released
- his lap L22 was 0.2 slower than Piastri's L17 which is lap before in-lap for both, which is quite good concerning 5 laps older tyres and losing tyres behind Hamilton
- Stint 2 on Hards was by far the best of any car and it was a shame the strategy call was what it was (it was a worthy risk, btw, track position is premium)
- Sainz' stint 3 was very good and better than Piastri's before he caught up with Leclerc and later Max
- this stint is likely 0.2s a lap slower than what Leclerc would have been able to do without strategy risk he took, based on first two stints between the two of them
- overall, Leclerc had the pace for an easy P3 and gap to winning McLaren would have been 8-10s with Hamilton's track position and intended strategy of M-H-M with 20-22 laps on Mediums as intended
- Leclerc was easily on par with Max' pace and at most 0.2s a lap slower than McLaren yesterday - which is by far the best pace since Monaco

Negatives:
- like last year, final two corners is where Ferrari lost the most time in the race compared to all 3 competitor cars, but they were the fastest in S1 and S2 during the race - I guess they had understeer in these two long slow corners and would probably benefit from more front wing flap and more flexing (like McLaren and Merc) to keep the medium and high-speed balance as is
- the car suffers in Q pace and is not as flexible as other cars when there's a bigger difference between Q and R ambient and track temperatures, this is a suspension issue that definitely needs to be resolved permanently for future cars
- the car seems to still be front-limited and they still have the room to increase front wing planform surface but for some reason they don't

Spa will be a tough test for the car and bouncing and if the order is the same as in Hungary (weather permitting) it will be a very good job from Maranello and post-Silverstone floor tweaks.

Yes, this is a very balanced and reasonable assessment. Hungary was undoubtedly a positive in the scheme of recent races and gives me more confidence they understand the direction. It’s now fair to say that every top team has had a period under these rules where they’ve appeared lost and Ferrari have still won more races since 2022 than anyone bar Red Bull.

As for the seemingly different feedback about bouncing from Fred vs the drivers, I suspect these are two sides of the same thing: the drivers say there is still bouncing and Fred is saying the bouncing is no longer an issue. Both can be true. That said, it could be worse again in Spa given longer, faster corners, so let’s see.

[FDD]

Trying to be the voice of reason is a losing battle in this thread for a while now, but here goes. After 4 very challenging races, here are the positives:

- Leclerc (faster of the two in this race) had a compromised Stint 1 behind Hamilton and still didn't lose too much time once released
- his lap L22 was 0.2 slower than Piastri's L17 which is lap before in-lap for both, which is quite good concerning 5 laps older tyres and losing tyres behind Hamilton
- Stint 2 on Hards was by far the best of any car and it was a shame the strategy call was what it was (it was a worthy risk, btw, track position is premium)
- Sainz' stint 3 was very good and better than Piastri's before he caught up with Leclerc and later Max
- this stint is likely 0.2s a lap slower than what Leclerc would have been able to do without strategy risk he took, based on first two stints between the two of them
- overall, Leclerc had the pace for an easy P3 and gap to winning McLaren would have been 8-10s with Hamilton's track position and intended strategy of M-H-M with 20-22 laps on Mediums as intended
- Leclerc was easily on par with Max' pace and at most 0.2s a lap slower than McLaren yesterday - which is by far the best pace since Monaco

Negatives:
- like last year, final two corners is where Ferrari lost the most time in the race compared to all 3 competitor cars, but they were the fastest in S1 and S2 during the race - I guess they had understeer in these two long slow corners and would probably benefit from more front wing flap and more flexing (like McLaren and Merc) to keep the medium and high-speed balance as is
- the car suffers in Q pace and is not as flexible as other cars when there's a bigger difference between Q and R ambient and track temperatures, this is a suspension issue that definitely needs to be resolved permanently for future cars
- the car seems to still be front-limited and they still have the room to increase front wing planform surface but for some reason they don't

Spa will be a tough test for the car and bouncing and if the order is the same as in Hungary (weather permitting) it will be a very good job from Maranello and post-Silverstone floor tweaks.

Yes, this is a very balanced and reasonable assessment. Hungary was undoubtedly a positive in the scheme of recent races and gives me more confidence they understand the direction. It’s now fair to say that every top team has had a period under these rules where they’ve appeared lost and Ferrari have still won more races since 2022 than anyone bar Red Bull.

As for the seemingly different feedback about bouncing from Fred vs the drivers, I suspect these are two sides of the same thing: the drivers say there is still bouncing and Fred is saying the bouncing is no longer an issue. Both can be true. That said, it could be worse again in Spa given longer, faster corners, so let’s see.

Fred :
“At least we have fixed a lot of the bouncing, it is becoming easier for the drivers to manage the car and feel confident. We are in better conditions than last weekend at Silverstone. Now we must push more on development, also increasing aerodynamic load”.

[heretolearn]

I don't want to get off topic, but I'd like to ask a few questions concerning a commonality (as I see it) between the F1 team and the 499P running in the WEC.

Both groups have struggled to find the optimum balance between aero and mechanical grip which subsequently affects tire wear, and we have Cardile's comment that suspension design is overrated. My unsophisticated take on the SF-24 is in line with Vanja's comment - the car is, in some significant way, struggling as a result of their like of attention to suspension design. We can see a similar fault in the WEC car which seems to be very aerodynamically sophisticated and optimized for faster tracks with higher aero load (Le Mans being notable, hence the excellent results), but struggled greatly to warm is tires properly last year and still has traction problems relative to its competitors in slower circuits.

- Is this a Ferrari "cultural" thing, where the company lets the aero people run wild at the expense of the bigger picture?
- Is the Scuderia lacking in facilities or personnel dedicated to understanding tires and tire wear? For all the good he did, I remember someone saying that Di Montezemolo interfering and disbanding a group within the team that focused on this very issue?
- Is the hiring of Jérôme d'Ambrosio and Loic Serra in any way focused on correcting this (known) issue?

Feel free to correct anything I say (note the user name).

[dialtone]

Ferrari was perfectly fine in Imola and Spa. In Qatar they were unfavorably BoPed as they were in Brazil.

499P massively improved tire management.

I don’t think they have the same issues as the F1 team.

[deadhead]

Spa will be a tough test for the car and bouncing and if the order is the same as in Hungary (weather permitting) it will be a very good job from Maranello and post-Silverstone floor tweaks.

Would you say that Hungaroring was one of the best suited tracks for the SF24 in general?

[Fakepivot]

as for 499p i think its working window is still smaller than toyota, i have not seen 499p being good at rain, sometimes 2 sec off pace.. could be driver who know..

how the weather like at spa, quick google tells me it will rain on saturday Again :/.. man i really dislike rain during qualifying, not only our car good but i really hope charles and bryan has worked out there communication in mixed condition in advance.

[yooogurt]

Ferrari engineers used a reshaped bottom to partially ward off rebound but even in Hungary the soft tires were poison in qualifying, the hard tires medicine in the race. Why? The SF-24 is suffering from the development performed in Barcelona, the car is faster in the slow, which shows that the downforce has increased but it is a Pyrrhic victory. It soon became clear that the balance has changed without solving the weak point. The car with the new parts exacerbated the flaw in qualifying, triggering porpoising in the load peaks when lateral forces are above 3.5G. The Hungarian adjustment solved the problem under braking by improving drivers' confidence and pushed the rebound away beyond 4G, which is why it was called a step forward.

In qualifying, instability on the soft tires is the number one enemy of the Rossa, which produces two negative effects in the fast medium corners: attacking little or no kerbs so as not to jump in support. In the race the situation changes, when speeds drop and the stiff shoulder of the harder tire reduces instability to zero, the Ferrari SF-24 becomes the car it should be. It is currently a meager consolation compared to the hopes after Monaco.

AT SPA THEY WILL ALL TRAVEL HIGHER FOR COMPRESSIONS, CAN IT HELP FERRARI?
Ni, in a way it can be good in qualifying for Ferrari but only if the temperatures will not be too low to perform a decent preparation. If everyone raises the bottom it is clear that those who use it forcibly higher benefit indirectly at the same load. Running higher reduces the risk of rebound so it may not be a disadvantage, however the fast corners, the nightmare of Silverstone, return, so there is a need to see encouraging improvement in mechanical adjustments and in the speed of finding good settings. We have seen how high temperatures help Ferrari in warm up and in managing pressures that reach the correct window of use more quickly.
https://formu1a.uno/it/gp-ungheria-perc ... -reagendo/

[yooogurt]

[JPower]

What a goofy car.

Totally unpredictable. Every variable seems to strongly affect it.

It's clear the performance is there...on a certain tire...on a certain track...at a certain temp...in certain weather conditions...with a certain setup...with which driver feels more comfortable that day.

[SoulPancake13]

https://forum.f1news.ru/uploads/monthly ... f55ef.jpeg

McLaren being second strongest last year and improving that much is quite impressive tbch. Still though, I wasn't sure why some here were so negative after the race... The pace was strong, especially considering where we were the last 3 races before.