Silly season 2024-2025

[djos]

No Verstappen is leaving and they want to keep Perez as a measure stick.

Brave prediction, but it seems unlikely Max is leaving RedBull.

Nothing will surprise me anymore

True, F1 is nothing if not full of surprises!

I certainly didn’t expect Lewis to sign with Ferrari!

Max to Mercedes does make a lot of sense, I just doubt he can get out of his contract for 2025+.

[djos]

Btw, I’m really not surprised Carlos signed for Williams, he’s driven James key cars at Maclaren and described them as “weird”, which Daniel found out the hard way.

I think Williams is a much better bet long term, especially with their close Mercedes partnership and quality management team.

[langedweil]

Btw, I’m really not surprised Carlos signed for Williams, he’s driven James key cars at Maclaren and described them as “weird”, which Daniel found out the hard way.

I think Williams is a much better bet long term, especially with their close Mercedes partnership and quality management team.

Dunno what to think of it, but Vowles absolutely has a good influence on that team ..

[djos]

Btw, I’m really not surprised Carlos signed for Williams, he’s driven James key cars at Maclaren and described them as “weird”, which Daniel found out the hard way.

I think Williams is a much better bet long term, especially with their close Mercedes partnership and quality management team.

Dunno what to think of it, but Vowles absolutely has a good influence on that team ..

I think getting and keeping Pat Fry is a huge vote of confidence too.

[AR3-GP]

If I was Max right now, I would move to Mercedes on a long term deal starting from 2025.

I just had my epiphany. Who do you trust to give you a race winning car? James Allison and Mercedes-Benz engines or Pierre Wache and an unproven Red Bull Ford PU?

This isn't even a fair fight

James Allison is a massively accomplished engineer who won championships with Ferrari and Schumacher, Renault and Alonso, Mercedes and Hamilton. Mercedes Benz is a proven F1 powertrain leader. Pierre Wache has no notable achievements without Adrian Newey. Red Bull has never built an engine before.

[djos]

If I was Max right now, I would move to Mercedes on a long term deal starting from 2025.

I just had my epiphany. Who do you trust to give you a race winning car? James Allison and Mercedes-Benz engines or Pierre Wache and an unproven Red Bull Ford PU?

This isn't even a fair fight

James Allison is a massively accomplished engineer who won championships with Ferrari and Schumacher, Renault and Alonso, Mercedes and Hamilton. Mercedes Benz is a proven F1 powertrain leader. Pierre Wache has no notable achievements without Adrian Newey. Red Bull has never built an engine before.

Very good points - although it did take Merc a long time to get to grips with the aero for the current generation of cars, so who knows if they will flub the 2026 aero rules too.

[AR3-GP]

If I was Max right now, I would move to Mercedes on a long term deal starting from 2025.

I just had my epiphany. Who do you trust to give you a race winning car? James Allison and Mercedes-Benz engines or Pierre Wache and an unproven Red Bull Ford PU?

This isn't even a fair fight

James Allison is a massively accomplished engineer who won championships with Ferrari and Schumacher, Renault and Alonso, Mercedes and Hamilton. Mercedes Benz is a proven F1 powertrain leader. Pierre Wache has no notable achievements without Adrian Newey. Red Bull has never built an engine before.

Very good points - although it did take Merc a long time to get to grips with the aero for the current generation of cars, so who knows if they will flub the 2026 aero rules too.

Mercedes might flub the 2026 aero rules, but they aren't going to flub the 2026 engines, and James Allison turns every car into a title contender eventually. What has Pierre Wache and Red Bull done without Adrian Newey? 2015 was a disaster. 2024 without Newey has seen multiple failed upgrades so far. RBPT will not be better than a Mercedes Benz engine.

Max finds himself at a critical career juncture. He is in the same place that Hamilton was in 2012. Mclaren was falling apart in every area and cemented their plunge into the wilderness with a new Honda engine. Mercedes made Hamilton an offer and a promise of great things to come. He took that offer and the rest is history.

It is the same thing going on now with Max, Red Bull, and Mercedes taking the roles of Hamilton, Mclaren and Mercedes. People called Hamilton crazy for trading the title contending Mclaren of 2012 for the Mercedes team of 2013. Max has to be bold just as Hamilton was. Anyone who thinks Red Bull is the same team that it was is in denial. It is a team in decline just as Mclaren was 12 years ago.

It is a bigger risk to stay at RBR than it is to go to Mercedes. Mercedes will be there on multiple fronts. Red Bull is the risk. The engine could be a disaster. The team has not proven anything without Adrian Newey.

[djos]

I don’t disagree at all, but if your car is bouncing like mad or just doesn’t have great aero, engine power is not going to win on its own. Merc got away with it in the first few hybrid years because the cars didn’t have highly sensitive Venturi tunnels to tune, and you could brute force the aero rules.

[AR3-GP]

I don’t disagree at all, but if your car is bouncing like mad or just doesn’t have great aero, engine power is not going to win on its own. Merc got away with it in the first few hybrid years because the cars didn’t have highly sensitive Venturi tunnels to tune, and you could brute force the aero rules.

I understand this but we have to look at the bigger picture and consider probabilities and statistics. James Allison designs winning cars. He always does at every team he has been in since the year 2000. It's an incredible track record including the likes of Ferrari, Renault, Lotus, and Mercedes in the old rules, and today. In the same way that Newey influences teams for the better, James Allison is also someone that influences teams for the better.

If you make me pick between Pierre Wache and James Allison, I pick James Allison's team. The little that Pierre Wache has shown with the RB20 in Newey's absence has been dreadful. If you make me pick between a RB-Ford engine and Mercedes Benz engine, I pick Mercedes Benz. The decisions are not even close.

Red Bull is in a slow decline due to a limited windtunnel allocation, the loss of key technical leaders, 5 millions dollars of damage done by Sergio Perez, failed updates, and the parody atmosphere in the team where people are in denial about how much they have lost, how bad the car is, and the Perez situation. Verstappen must rip the band-aid off and move on or he is going to be right back where he was in 2015-2016 with an uncompetitive car and an unreliable/underpowered engine.

[djos]

I don’t disagree at all, but if your car is bouncing like mad or just doesn’t have great aero, engine power is not going to win on its own. Merc got away with it in the first few hybrid years because the cars didn’t have highly sensitive Venturi tunnels to tune, and you could brute force the aero rules.

I understand this but we have to look at the bigger picture and consider probabilities and statistics. James Allison designs winning cars. He always does at every team he has been in since the year 2000. It's an incredible track record including the likes of Ferrari, Renault, Lotus, and Mercedes in the old rules, and today. In the same way that Newey influences teams for the better, James Allison is also someone that influences teams for the better.

If you make me pick between Pierre Wache and James Allison, I pick James Allison's team. The little that Pierre Wache has shown with the RB20 in Newey's absence has been dreadful. If you make me pick between a RB-Ford engine and Mercedes Benz engine, I pick Mercedes Benz. The decisions are not even close.

Red Bull is in a slow decline due to a limited windtunnel allocation, the loss of key technical leaders, 5 millions dollars of damage done by Sergio Perez, failed updates, and the parody atmosphere in the team where people are in denial about how much they have lost, how bad the car is, and the Perez situation. Verstappen must rip the band-aid off and move on or he is going to be right back where he was in 2015-2016 with an uncompetitive car and an unreliable engine.

100% Pierre is untested on his own, unlike Peter Prodromu who has being doing a great job for Maclaren since James key was booted out (he had apparently sidelined him and Andrea has now made proper use of his talents).

[Starscreamer]

Maybe strange but what about this:

2025
Mercedes pay Williams for Sainz for one season
Williams will get Antonelli for free for one season

2026
Sainz back to Williams and Antonelli to Mercedes

[PapayaFan481]

Now we just need Newey to announce his return to Grove....

[f1isgood]

It is crazy how people have jumped on Wache after a few bad races. Thank goodness teams and internal people know better. What's even worse is that Red Bull probably win that race with Max in front. When RB18 and RB19 was successful somehow Newey was the architect but Newey is now being absolved of any and all blame for RB20.

We do live in a fickle world.

[PapayaFan481]

It is crazy how people have jumped on Wache after a few bad races. Thank goodness teams and internal people know better. What's even worse is that Red Bull probably win that race with Max in front. When RB18 and RB19 was successful somehow Newey was the architect but Newey is now being absolved of any and all blame for RB20.

We do live in a fickle world.

I've said for ages that it must suck sometimes working under Newey. He gets all the credit.

[JordanMugen]

Sainz choice of a privateer instead of a manufacturer team is very curious IMO. Did Alpine or Audi not present compelling financial offers?

There is a certain prestige to driving for a manufacturer team like Jaguar, Toyota or Honda, even if they are backmarkers.

It is a bigger risk to stay at RBR than it is to go to Mercedes. Mercedes will be there on multiple fronts. Red Bull is the risk. The engine could be a disaster. The team has not proven anything without Adrian Newey.

That could be the case. However McLaren not Mercedes looks like the leading car builder right now, and they will have the same Mercedes 2026 PU. But McLaren do not have a vacancy for Verstappen...

They hold power because Redbull don't currently have a ready replacement for Max. I guess we hear so much about Max to Mercedes because Jos Verstappen is probably stirring the pot. Basically, if Max left for Mercedes in 2025, they'd be up a creek without a paddle.

Sainz would be a perfectly competent Tier 1.5 driver, but Red Bull refused him?! [Yes, it's due to Sainz's political manoeuvring tendencies and lack of being a compliant number 2 driver, but that would be OK for a lead driver.]

Red Bull could also have looked into Ocon who is erratic but fast IMO [obviously an even worse choice of teammate to Verstappen than Sainz though!].