Silly season 2024-2025

[AR3-GP]

It is a bigger risk to stay at RBR than it is to go to Mercedes. Mercedes will be there on multiple fronts. Red Bull is the risk. The engine could be a disaster. The team has not proven anything without Adrian Newey.

That could be the case. However McLaren not Mercedes looks like the leading car builder right now, and they will have the same Mercedes 2026 PU. But McLaren do not have a vacancy for Verstappen...

Mclaren probably had the fastest car since Miami and Mercedes has more wins in that time.

Mclaren’s form will be nerfed by the same system that helped them go to the front. The system favored them with their windtunnel time advantage to make a pull towards the front again. They were as far back as P6/P7 in the WCC a year ago with a massive development time advantage. We are seeing that advantage pay dividends a year later. When they win the WCC they will get nerfed with the 1st place windtunnel and CFD allocations right as the FIA sets teams on their marks to develop the 2026 cars.

Mercedes is now sitting in the catbird seat because of the system. A healthy budget in the absence crashes and failed updates. They have the 4th place windtunnel allocation to develop their 2025 contender and when they finish the year 4th in the WCC they will have a big allocation advantage over Mclaren just in time to start work on the 2026 cars.

[f1isgood]

It is crazy how people have jumped on Wache after a few bad races. Thank goodness teams and internal people know better. What's even worse is that Red Bull probably win that race with Max in front. When RB18 and RB19 was successful somehow Newey was the architect but Newey is now being absolved of any and all blame for RB20.

We do live in a fickle world.

I've said for ages that it must suck sometimes working under Newey. He gets all the credit.

Getting credit is only part of the problem. Now when the car is bad and apparently the suspension designed by Newey himself is the problem, the ones getting the fire are Wache et al, and Newey is absolved of all blame.

I don't think it sucks when you are winning per say but when you lose it really must be something special.

[zeph]

All true. But depending on how quickly Binotto can get to work, I feel Audi is not without a prayer here. It seems unlikely they will hit the ground running come ‘26, but stranger things have happened.

In my estimation, Sainz deserves better. It’s possible Williams will take a McLaren-like step forward next season, but I would not bet on it.

I can't make any sense of why anyone has any confidence whatsoever in Sauber/Audi. Being a manufacturer is not a golden ticket to the front of the grid; numerous other manufacturers have tried and failed, and unlike Audi, many of those actually had F1 experience before. Hinwil hasn't seen a dime since the BMW days and the cost cap limits how much Audi will be able to invest. Williams is already a couple years ahead in that regard.

Not sure where I express said confidence in Audi? I literally say "it seems unlikely they will hit the ground running in 2026".

But I do rate Binotto highly. If he is given an opportunity to build, I am optimistic they can expect to see results in a few years' time. If I were to guess I'd say closer to 2028, but who knows?

[dren]

Audi is going to be interesting. They'll certainly throw resources at the team, but I'm not yet convinced it will succeed initially. Alpine is a dumpster fire rollercoaster of midfield performance. I don't expect that to change. Williams has a lot going for it with the team expansion. If we don't see much of an improvement next season, I'd be worried. I think I'd make the same decision that Sainz did. I think the Audi project is going to take longer than they are expecting.

[Gillian]

Audi is going to be interesting. They'll certainly throw resources at the team, but I'm not yet convinced it will succeed initially. Alpine is a dumpster fire rollercoaster of midfield performance. I don't expect that to change. Williams has a lot going for it with the team expansion. If we don't see much of an improvement next season, I'd be worried. I think I'd make the same decision that Sainz did. I think the Audi project is going to take longer than they are expecting.

I feel like Audi is going to endup like Toyota. Money is no issue, but they don't really have anything going for them yet... no big driver signing, some kind of uniqe technical knowhow, political power, etc. Nothing.

[dren]

Audi is going to be interesting. They'll certainly throw resources at the team, but I'm not yet convinced it will succeed initially. Alpine is a dumpster fire rollercoaster of midfield performance. I don't expect that to change. Williams has a lot going for it with the team expansion. If we don't see much of an improvement next season, I'd be worried. I think I'd make the same decision that Sainz did. I think the Audi project is going to take longer than they are expecting.

I feel like Audi is going to endup like Toyota. Money is no issue, but they don't really have anything going for them yet... no big driver signing, some kind of uniqe technical knowhow, political power, etc. Nothing.

If the team makes some strides in the next year or two, they'll certainly attract higher caliber drivers. I'm not convinced they will, though. Toyota could have had a much better 2009 season with a better driver line-up.

[90feet]

All true. But depending on how quickly Binotto can get to work, I feel Audi is not without a prayer here. It seems unlikely they will hit the ground running come ‘26, but stranger things have happened.

In my estimation, Sainz deserves better. It’s possible Williams will take a McLaren-like step forward next season, but I would not bet on it.

I can't make any sense of why anyone has any confidence whatsoever in Sauber/Audi. Being a manufacturer is not a golden ticket to the front of the grid; numerous other manufacturers have tried and failed, and unlike Audi, many of those actually had F1 experience before. Hinwil hasn't seen a dime since the BMW days and the cost cap limits how much Audi will be able to invest. Williams is already a couple years ahead in that regard.

Not sure where I express said confidence in Audi? I literally say "it seems unlikely they will hit the ground running in 2026".

But I do rate Binotto highly. If he is given an opportunity to build, I am optimistic they can expect to see results in a few years' time. If I were to guess I'd say closer to 2028, but who knows?

Sorry for the confusion, I was agreeing with you and talking about people in general.

[taperoo2k]

Audi is going to be interesting. They'll certainly throw resources at the team, but I'm not yet convinced it will succeed initially.

If they have a decent to great Power Unit, Audi will have a solid foundation to build upon. I think 2026 might be a bit chaotic for Audi as it sounds like they are behind where they need to be, due to the squabbling that went on.

Alpine is a dumpster fire rollercoaster of midfield performance. I don't expect that to change.

Renault can never seem to make its mind up if they want to be in F1 or not. That leads to the instability we've seen at Alpine in recent times.

Williams has a lot going for it with the team expansion. If we don't see much of an improvement next season, I'd be worried. I think I'd make the same decision that Sainz did. I think the Audi project is going to take longer than they are expecting.

Williams are still very much in a rebuilding phase. Just a reminder of what Williams went through to design and build this year's car. https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/shoc ... evolution/

Williams simply looks like the better option at this point, it's got a Team Principle in Vowles who's the driving force behind the rebuilding of Williams. The owners of the team have stumped up the cash for the rebuilding efforts. I think Williams are on the same kind of trajectory as McLaren. Get the right people and the infrastructure in place and I don't think it matters if you are a works team or not.

As for Audi? They might come good in the long term, but in the immediate future? Might be a messy start to Audi's entry into F1.

[djos]

It’s very lucky for RedBull and Checo that F1 doesn’t have “consistency” points system like Indycar, as Daniel would have collected more WDC points than Checo from the last 8 races.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

So, do Bottas or Sauber-Audi have any other options than continuing their relationship?

[Starscreamer]

So, do Bottas or Sauber-Audi have any other options than continuing their relationship?

If Ricciardo signs voor VCARB then Lawson is an option for Audi and Bottas to Mercedes

[Jurgen von Diaz]

So, do Bottas or Sauber-Audi have any other options than continuing their relationship?

If Ricciardo signs voor VCARB then Lawson is an option for Audi and Bottas to Mercedes

I didn't believe it at first, but Antonelli for Merc seems like a no-brainer at the moment.

[chrisc90]

Who’s actually left for 2025 now?

Merc surely gonna have to rely on junior seats now sainz has gone?

[PapayaFan481]

Who’s actually left for 2025 now?

Merc surely gonna have to rely on junior seats now sainz has gone?

I think Kimi is a shoe in there, maybe Riciardo has an outside shot if he doesn't stay in the RB family.

Would they risk Mick Schumacher? I don't see it myself.

Maybe Bottas returns there, but again I don't see that either.

[dren]

Who’s actually left for 2025 now?

Merc surely gonna have to rely on junior seats now sainz has gone?

I get the feeling Mercedes wasn't ever interested in Sainz. Sainz chose between Alpine, Williams, and Audi.