2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sergej
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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So more than 4 tenths per lap lost due to incorrect specifications for max. Not horrendous to have a 20s gap in 50 laps then

Xyz22
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 16:55
Xyz22 wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 16:46
Something is really off here.
Verstappen is racing with a launch spec floor. What do you expect?
This car was on rails in China. Now it's very difficult to drive.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 22:58
AR3-GP wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 16:55
Xyz22 wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 16:46
Something is really off here.
Verstappen is racing with a launch spec floor. What do you expect?
This car was on rails in China. Now it's very difficult to drive.
The car is not difficult to drive with the older floors, Look at Perez. His performance recovered almost overnight relative to Ferrari, and Mercedes. He was only 5 seconds behind Piastri in the 1st stint. With the previous package he was fighting with Haas.

The "difficulty" that is perceived now by Max is what happens when you try to push a car faster than it's capable of going. This makes sense considering they downgraded the floor to a launch spec and he's trying to keep up with a MKIII Mclaren.
A lion must kill its prey.

Xyz22
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 23:13
Xyz22 wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 22:58
AR3-GP wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 16:55


Verstappen is racing with a launch spec floor. What do you expect?
This car was on rails in China. Now it's very difficult to drive.
The car is not difficult to drive with the older floors, Look at Perez. His performance recovered almost overnight relative to Ferrari, and Mercedes. He was only 5 seconds behind Piastri in the 1st stint. With the previous package he was fighting with Haas.

The "difficulty" that is perceived now by Max is what happens when you try to push a car faster than it's capable of going. This makes sense considering they downgraded the floor to a launch spec and he's trying to keep up with a MKIII Mclaren.
Max wasn't happy about the balance either, though. So it seems there is more than just a mere lack of overall performance.

FittingMechanics
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Comparing McLaren of last year to today makes no sense. They brought a proper high speed package this year and Zak said today that they are bringing some more bits to Monza.

Oscar said he feels confident they will be decent at all types of tracks.

I wouldn't bet against McLaren.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 23:16
Max wasn't happy about the balance either, though. So it seems there is more than just a mere lack of overall performance.
The car has always leaned towards understeer since 2022. Max can be unhappy with the balance, but the car can still be "fast". It's just not good enough to fight Mclaren. They beat Ferrari and Mercedes with a launch spec floor, a "bad" balance, and the wrong wings, so it isn't all wrong.
A lion must kill its prey.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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McLaren is mostly benefiting from copying RedBull so a cheaper RnD investment which is then compounded by the additional wind tunnel time. They are sling shotting off the regulations basically, and will carry that into 2025.
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Racing Green in 2028

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 23:53
McLaren is mostly benefiting from copying RedBull so a cheaper RnD investment which is then compounded by the additional wind tunnel time. They are sling shotting off the regulations basically, and will carry that into 2025.
I agree. The regulations intended for it to happen. It cheapens the championship but it is what it is. One may note that none of the backmarker teams have slingshotted upwards but the backmarkers are institutionally deficient. They can't be compared to the capacity of the leading teams. If you give teams like Mclaren, Red Bull, and Mercedes extra windtunnel hours over their rivals, they are going to close that gap quickly.

For people who don't think that the windtunnel and CFD time is significant, petition the FIA to give Red Bull more windtunnel time since it "doesn't matter". I doubt there will be any takers on that :lol:
A lion must kill its prey.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 22:41
So more than 4 tenths per lap lost due to incorrect specifications for max. Not horrendous to have a 20s gap in 50 laps then
Dr Obbs said that the Bahrain spec floor only got put on Max's car from FP3 onwards. Considering that FP3 was wet, lol. He did 1 lap in FP3 on the intermediates. This was like going into qualy with no prep work. Perhaps things are not so dire after all. I think a lot of the gap could be explained by Mclaren having a completed car that works, and Red Bull currently looks like a team inthe middle of pre-season testing. To qualify 2nd and finish 2nd is not bad at all. They are basically in a full-fledged test session.



Most of the remaining tracks on the calendar should not have rain disruptions and they will have much more time evaluate changes.

I take back my previous reservations. They were not made with consideration for the full picture.
A lion must kill its prey.

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Paa
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
26 Aug 2024, 00:18
organic wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 22:41
So more than 4 tenths per lap lost due to incorrect specifications for max. Not horrendous to have a 20s gap in 50 laps then
Dr Obbs said that the Bahrain spec floor only got put on Max's car from FP3 onwards. Considering that FP3 was wet, lol. He did 1 lap in FP3 on the intermediates. This was like going into qualy with no prep work. Perhaps things are not so dire after all. I think a lot of the gap could be explained by Mclaren having a completed car that works, and Red Bull currently looks like a team inthe middle of pre-season testing. To qualify 2nd and finish 2nd is not bad at all. They are basically in a full-fledged test session.



Most of the remaining tracks on the calendar should not have rain disruptions and they will have much more time evaluate changes.

I take back my previous reservations. They were not made with consideration for the full picture.
On one hand you can say that the result is not so bad considering the circumstances. (glass half full)
On the other hand these circumstances show that Red Bull is lost and desperate at the moment. Putting the launch spec floor on wet FP3 at the 15th race of the season, sounds super miserable. (glass half empty)

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organic
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yeah but it no doubt will provide them more data that can conclude where and how they went wrong and arrive at a solution more quickly. They are experimenting and used zandvoort as a test session and still only lost 8pts to Norris in WDC. Could be a lot worse.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Image



Verstappen manages to have a very low laptime spread compared to the others.
A lion must kill its prey.

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organic
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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No doubt running what was essentially his own race for the entire GP helped

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Sergej
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Paa wrote:
26 Aug 2024, 01:10
AR3-GP wrote:
26 Aug 2024, 00:18
organic wrote:
25 Aug 2024, 22:41
So more than 4 tenths per lap lost due to incorrect specifications for max. Not horrendous to have a 20s gap in 50 laps then
Dr Obbs said that the Bahrain spec floor only got put on Max's car from FP3 onwards. Considering that FP3 was wet, lol. He did 1 lap in FP3 on the intermediates. This was like going into qualy with no prep work. Perhaps things are not so dire after all. I think a lot of the gap could be explained by Mclaren having a completed car that works, and Red Bull currently looks like a team inthe middle of pre-season testing. To qualify 2nd and finish 2nd is not bad at all. They are basically in a full-fledged test session.



Most of the remaining tracks on the calendar should not have rain disruptions and they will have much more time evaluate changes.

I take back my previous reservations. They were not made with consideration for the full picture.
On one hand you can say that the result is not so bad considering the circumstances. (glass half full)
On the other hand these circumstances show that Red Bull is lost and desperate at the moment. Putting the launch spec floor on wet FP3 at the 15th race of the season, sounds super miserable. (glass half empty)
if it provides a new development path, it's not that bad, especially considering the price was only 8 points

the thing is, next upgrade cycle HAS to deliver, the WDC will probably depend on this.