2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Cuky]

oh boy have you guys seen the new livery?? they trolled us agaain

Only new thing I saw are race suits

[catent]

Charles said again that they understood what went wrong in quali.

This is like 5th time i am reading they understand issues, i suppose fix cant come this season same as for long corners

The explanation for what went wrong may not be related to anything fundamental with the identity of the car.

Could be tire prep, car setup, the driver's approach to certain corners/turns, etc.

Understanding what went wrong does not necessarily mean they've found a silver-bullet, and finding a silver-bullet may not be necessary in order to be competitive.

[cplchanb]

oh boy have you guys seen the new livery?? they trolled us agaain

Only new thing I saw are race suits

they honestly spent more money on marketing, gimmick team kit and the driver number sticker on the car than the livery of the car itself.... once again questionably decision making by F1's most storied team

[Seanspeed]

If they return to the relative competitiveness they had earlier on in the season

That just seems very unlikely. It's not that Ferrari got so much terribly slower, and more that Mercedes and especially Mclaren took shockingly big leaps forward. It will be miraculous if Ferrari all the sudden manages the same kind of leap so late on. Mclaren has been faster than Ferrari at every track since Monaco(or arguably Suzuka), and now seem to have the fastest car at like 90% of circuits, so overhauling them is a huge ask. Mercedes is potentially catchable with some improvements as their car is still a little inconsistent.

[scuderiabrandon]

Charles said again that they understood what went wrong in quali.

This is like 5th time i am reading they understand issues, i suppose fix cant come this season same as for long corners

The explanation for what went wrong may not be related to anything fundamental with the identity of the car.

Could be tire prep, car setup, the driver's approach to certain corners/turns, etc.

Understanding what went wrong does not necessarily mean they've found a silver-bullet, and finding a silver-bullet may not be necessary in order to be competitive.

It's nice to see someone with some common sense

[catent]

If they return to the relative competitiveness they had earlier on in the season

That just seems very unlikely. It's not that Ferrari got so much terribly slower, and more that Mercedes and especially Mclaren took shockingly big leaps forward. It will be miraculous if Ferrari all the sudden manages the same kind of leap so late on. Mclaren has been faster than Ferrari at every track since Monaco(or arguably Suzuka), and now seem to have the fastest car at like 90% of circuits, so overhauling them is a huge ask. Mercedes is potentially catchable with some improvements as their car is still a little inconsistent.

“Mercedes is potentially catchable”

The same Mercedes that trails Ferrari by 94 points in the WCC?

[f1316]

That just seems very unlikely. It's not that Ferrari got so much terribly slower, and more that Mercedes and especially Mclaren took shockingly big leaps forward. It will be miraculous if Ferrari all the sudden manages the same kind of leap so late on. Mclaren has been faster than Ferrari at every track since Monaco(or arguably Suzuka), and now seem to have the fastest car at like 90% of circuits, so overhauling them is a huge ask. Mercedes is potentially catchable with some improvements as their car is still a little inconsistent.

“Mercedes is potentially catchable”

The same Mercedes that trails Ferrari by 94 points in the WCC?

Not much use engaging with someone out of touch with reality, all of us had a go and none succeeded

It’s not just the WCC but Ferrari were literally faster than Mercedes in the last race we had… so not sure I understand the logic.

The reality here is that Ferrari are not where we’re “supposed to be” given an upgrade that didn’t work - so that immediately gives an opportunity to jump forward (albeit having lost time for other forward momentum). That said, it doesn’t sound like they’ve stopped working in the planned Singapore update, so it could potentially mean having two upgrades - unlocking a previous one and adding on the planned additional one - in relatively close succession.

If you then factor in: (1) faster than Mercedes ar the last race (2) close to one RB and ahead of the other at the last race (who themselves are having issues upgrading the car (3) a run of theoretically positive circuits, then the potential upside doesn’t look bad at all. Fred has said several times that this is analogous to last year when they took a step backwards but then understood it and improved, and if the same reaction manifests here then we will be in good shape.

[mwillems]

If they return to the relative competitiveness they had earlier on in the season

That just seems very unlikely. It's not that Ferrari got so much terribly slower, and more that Mercedes and especially Mclaren took shockingly big leaps forward. It will be miraculous if Ferrari all the sudden manages the same kind of leap so late on. Mclaren has been faster than Ferrari at every track since Monaco(or arguably Suzuka), and now seem to have the fastest car at like 90% of circuits, so overhauling them is a huge ask. Mercedes is potentially catchable with some improvements as their car is still a little inconsistent.

“Mercedes is potentially catchable”

The same Mercedes that trails Ferrari by 94 points in the WCC?

He's not being hugely clear but appears to be in fact referring to the relative pace of the cars as it stands on current form at the end of his statement I think. but the way it was explained confusingly conflated the WCC performance with cars current performance.

So translated, it would read: Ferrari's car reaching again the pace of Mercedes is maybe possible but Mclaren is too far ahead this season for developments to bring Ferrari to their pace.

[Emag]

That just seems very unlikely. It's not that Ferrari got so much terribly slower, and more that Mercedes and especially Mclaren took shockingly big leaps forward. It will be miraculous if Ferrari all the sudden manages the same kind of leap so late on. Mclaren has been faster than Ferrari at every track since Monaco(or arguably Suzuka), and now seem to have the fastest car at like 90% of circuits, so overhauling them is a huge ask. Mercedes is potentially catchable with some improvements as their car is still a little inconsistent.

“Mercedes is potentially catchable”

The same Mercedes that trails Ferrari by 94 points in the WCC?

He's not being hugely clear but appears to be in fact referring to the relative pace of the cars as it stands on current form at the end of his statement I think. but the way it was explained confusingly conflated the WCC performance with cars current performance.

So translated, it would read: Ferrari's car reaching again the pace of Mercedes is maybe possible but Mclaren is too far ahead this season for developments to bring Ferrari to their pace.

Also not true. Ferrari has had pretty clear problems with their development plan so their recent performances are not representative.

If they actually fix the problems that were introduced with the Imola package while getting back the gains they were supposed to get, it’s not really a significant gap to make up, especially considering that it varies quite a bit track-to-track.

Even at Hungary, the difference was like 0.2s in race-pace.

Not at all unrecoverable.

[mwillems]

“Mercedes is potentially catchable”

The same Mercedes that trails Ferrari by 94 points in the WCC?

He's not being hugely clear but appears to be in fact referring to the relative pace of the cars as it stands on current form at the end of his statement I think. but the way it was explained confusingly conflated the WCC performance with cars current performance.

So translated, it would read: Ferrari's car reaching again the pace of Mercedes is maybe possible but Mclaren is too far ahead this season for developments to bring Ferrari to their pace.

Also not true. Ferrari has had pretty clear problems with their development plan so their recent performances are not representative.

If they actually fix the problems that were introduced with the Imola package while getting back the gains they were supposed to get, it’s not really a significant gap to make up, especially considering that it varies quite a bit track-to-track.

Even at Hungary, the difference was like 0.2s in race-pace.

Not at all unrecoverable.

I'm staying out of it now, was just clarifying what im reasonably sure they meant!

[Emag]

He's not being hugely clear but appears to be in fact referring to the relative pace of the cars as it stands on current form at the end of his statement I think. but the way it was explained confusingly conflated the WCC performance with cars current performance.

So translated, it would read: Ferrari's car reaching again the pace of Mercedes is maybe possible but Mclaren is too far ahead this season for developments to bring Ferrari to their pace.

Also not true. Ferrari has had pretty clear problems with their development plan so their recent performances are not representative.

If they actually fix the problems that were introduced with the Imola package while getting back the gains they were supposed to get, it’s not really a significant gap to make up, especially considering that it varies quite a bit track-to-track.

Even at Hungary, the difference was like 0.2s in race-pace.

Not at all unrecoverable.

I'm staying out of it now, was just clarifying what im reasonably sure they meant!

Fair enough. I just think people are overplaying McLaren’s advantage. And that’s mostly because Lando was amazing at Zandvoort.

But the gap at Zandvoort has not been the norm throughout the last couple of races. And I feel like people are writing off Ferrari too early.

If the “rectifications” at Monza don’t deliver (in subsequent races too, not just here), then I am with you. But at the moment, Ferrari could still rejoin the fight at the top.

[Macklaren]

Both McLaren and Ferrari have brought meaningful upgrades here, as expected. Would be surprised if they don't lock out the top-4 this weekend (assuming the upgrades work as planned yada yada)

[mwillems]

Also not true. Ferrari has had pretty clear problems with their development plan so their recent performances are not representative.

If they actually fix the problems that were introduced with the Imola package while getting back the gains they were supposed to get, it’s not really a significant gap to make up, especially considering that it varies quite a bit track-to-track.

Even at Hungary, the difference was like 0.2s in race-pace.

Not at all unrecoverable.

I'm staying out of it now, was just clarifying what im reasonably sure they meant!

Fair enough. I just think people are overplaying McLaren’s advantage. And that’s mostly because Lando was amazing at Zandvoort.

But the gap at Zandvoort has not been the norm throughout the last couple of races. And I feel like people are writing off Ferrari too early.

If the “rectifications” at Monza don’t deliver (in subsequent races too, not just here), then I am with you. But at the moment, Ferrari could still rejoin the fight at the top.

Yes I agree. As I said in the Mclaren thread, I think it becomes dominance when you string together wins, not win once.

You are right, the gap between the teams isn't huge and any one of the four teams could well win the development war by seasons end, even if they win no other titles.

[catent]

That just seems very unlikely. It's not that Ferrari got so much terribly slower, and more that Mercedes and especially Mclaren took shockingly big leaps forward. It will be miraculous if Ferrari all the sudden manages the same kind of leap so late on. Mclaren has been faster than Ferrari at every track since Monaco(or arguably Suzuka), and now seem to have the fastest car at like 90% of circuits, so overhauling them is a huge ask. Mercedes is potentially catchable with some improvements as their car is still a little inconsistent.

“Mercedes is potentially catchable”

The same Mercedes that trails Ferrari by 94 points in the WCC?

He's not being hugely clear but appears to be in fact referring to the relative pace of the cars as it stands on current form at the end of his statement I think. but the way it was explained confusingly conflated the WCC performance with cars current performance.

So translated, it would read: Ferrari's car reaching again the pace of Mercedes is maybe possible but Mclaren is too far ahead this season for developments to bring Ferrari to their pace.

I understood the op’s meaning … it’s just that what was said is effectively meaningless (and not necessarily accurate), imo.

What is the window of time for determining pace? The most recent race? The most recent 3 races? 5?

Mercedes had superior pace to Ferrari for 5-6 races prior to summer break. Ferrari had superior pace at Zandvoort.

The analysis is based on snapshots of singular points in time. I don’t buy the notion that Mercedes’ pace advantage over Ferrari is lasting (or even still exists), which the post I was replying to assumes is the case.

If Mercedes is legitimately quicker than Ferrari at Monza, I’ll tip my cap and eat some crow.

[mwillems]

“Mercedes is potentially catchable”

The same Mercedes that trails Ferrari by 94 points in the WCC?

He's not being hugely clear but appears to be in fact referring to the relative pace of the cars as it stands on current form at the end of his statement I think. but the way it was explained confusingly conflated the WCC performance with cars current performance.

So translated, it would read: Ferrari's car reaching again the pace of Mercedes is maybe possible but Mclaren is too far ahead this season for developments to bring Ferrari to their pace.

I understood the op’s meaning … it’s just that what was said is effectively meaningless, imo.

What is the window of time for determining pace? The most recent race? The most recent 3 races? 5?

Mercedes had superior pace to Ferrari for 5-6 races prior to summer break. Ferrari had superior pace at Zandvoort.

We’re just looking at snapshots from a point in time. Every race is scored, not just a handful of 5-6 races in May-July. I don’t buy the notion that Mercedes’ pace advantage is lasting (or even still exists), which the post I was replying to assumes is the case.

If Mercedes is legitimately quicker than Ferrari at Monza, I’ll tip my cap and eat some crow.

But the response didn't reflect that.

Yes I'd say one race doesn't change the fact that Mercedes look legitimately quicker than Ferrari right now. Any forecast for the future is opinion. 5 or 6 races is more than enough to determine current form.

Ultimately I don't agree with Seanspeed, the gaps are not that big and Ferrari can get back in front.

Ferrari doing well at Monza will begin to shift that form book, and they are capable of doing well. But right now they look like the 4th fastest car for the time being.

But as far as I'm aware, this was never about who will be faster at Monza, it was about the work Ferrari have to do to be considered as contenders for wins again. I'm not sure which was the last race anyone thought they are in contention for a win. So please don't eat any crow on my behalf.