2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[organic]

I'm back on the hopium. They'll be reverting to old specs to gather more data at Baku and Singapore and feed back into the factory, and from Austin onwards they will bring parts that primarily aim to reduce instability . So from Austin they can try to reduce the issues.

But this is speaking with a lot of hope. It's very possible that the fixes from Austin don't work, just like the previous updates. That said, everything they do for the rb20 will feed into the rb21's development so it's worth throwing a ton at fixing this car, even if it feels hopeless

[selvam_e2002]

like AMR and now they did not bring anything for past few races as all the updated failed miserably.... It seems they are missing Newly....

[Watto]

I'm back on the hopium. They'll be reverting to old specs to gather more data at Baku and Singapore and feed back into the factory, and from Austin onwards they will bring parts that primarily aim to reduce instability . So from Austin they can try to reduce the issues.

But this is speaking with a lot of hope. It's very possible that the fixes from Austin don't work, just like the previous updates. That said, everything they do for the rb20 will feed into the rb21's development so it's worth throwing a ton at fixing this car, even if it feels hopeless

Very interesting to see how things go. I guess up until this point they probably continued with the old plans even though they didn't seem to be working where as now maybe they somewhat abandon that and start from scratch again.

As much as we can sit and say they should have had the reset a few months ago, up until the last 2 races they were pretty competitive had it not being for the engine penalty a few races ago he would have likely won. So were maybe stuck between a rock and a hard place the updates not exactly going to plan but were competitive. But considering too a lot of this car seemed to have been worked on from earlyish last year when they had the 2024 championships sewn up early.

[Vanja #66]

Monza performance is a big warning, let's not forget a car with launch spec floor was still the 2nd best at Zandvoort. The issue at Monza was lack of proper wing, if they rectify this for Vegas they might just save themselves. If not, those two races will be the ones to blame, ie the decision not to invest a tiny amount into proper wing dev

[venkyhere]

I'm back on the hopium. They'll be reverting to old specs to gather more data at Baku and Singapore and feed back into the factory, and from Austin onwards they will bring parts that primarily aim to reduce instability . So from Austin they can try to reduce the issues.

See that's the thing that I dont concur with.
"reverting to old specs" is not like floor, sidepods, engine cover, the three wings ; that it is for other teams.
Remember they changed the cooling architecture with Japan update. That's a huge change (at significant cost) because it not only might involve things like heat exchangers and plumbing, but also fixing points to the tub, housings and wiring for the MGUs, electronics etc. A big 'packaging revolution' like that must involve a large chunk of the hardware-budget.
So I don't think 'going back to launch spec' is that easy with the RB20, I have a feeling the car has gone forward in an irreversible direction. To me, Redbull now look like 2022 Mercedes, going through the Thomas Alva Edison school of engineering - experiment randomly, till something shows up.

[venkyhere]

Monza performance is a big warning, let's not forget a car with launch spec floor was still the 2nd best at Zandvoort. The issue at Monza was lack of proper wing, if they rectify this for Vegas they might just save themselves. If not, those two races will be the ones to blame, ie the decision not to invest a tiny amount into proper wing dev

I concur. I had posted my doubts in the car comparison thread on Friday itself :

MClaren seem to have the lowest drag/DF wing of the four.
While the Mercedes and Redbull seem to take similar approaches (different from the other 2 who are similar to each other) , I don't understand the chop-shop Redbull wing at all - they have the most 'dished' mainplane, but have removed chord length from the flap

• so where is the downforce coming from ? (if at all that was the aim to use this, instead of something simpler like the ones we see on the Ferrari/McLaren)

• to me it looks like adding the most amount of drag out of the four ; and because of the sacrificed flap chord, might end up making the DRS not effective at all

[Watto]

Monza performance is a big warning, let's not forget a car with launch spec floor was still the 2nd best at Zandvoort. The issue at Monza was lack of proper wing, if they rectify this for Vegas they might just save themselves. If not, those two races will be the ones to blame, ie the decision not to invest a tiny amount into proper wing dev

I concur. I had posted my doubts in the car comparison thread on Friday itself :

MClaren seem to have the lowest drag/DF wing of the four.
While the Mercedes and Redbull seem to take similar approaches (different from the other 2 who are similar to each other) , I don't understand the chop-shop Redbull wing at all - they have the most 'dished' mainplane, but have removed chord length from the flap

• so where is the downforce coming from ? (if at all that was the aim to use this, instead of something simpler like the ones we see on the Ferrari/McLaren)

• to me it looks like adding the most amount of drag out of the four ; and because of the sacrificed flap chord, might end up making the DRS not effective at all

McLaren changed the rear wing for quali back the spa spec win that wasn't the ultra low downforce win they bough here for Monza though for free practice


https://racingnews365.com/why-the-mclar ... -f1-rivals

[TeamKoolGreen]

So Carlos Sainz has 60 million dollars from Santander following him out of Ferrari and possibly into Williams. That's double of what Perez's money allegedly is. Red Bull could have had Sainz and 60 million dollars instead of Perez and 30 million. What a fumble that was.

[Sergej]

It's very simple: more 30-40 points lost between Baku and Singapore, then from Austin on, with 20-30 point gap, either some miraculous corrections work or the title is gone.

[Vanja #66]

McLaren changed the rear wing for quali back the spa spec win that wasn't the ultra low downforce win they bough here for Monza though for free practice
https://cdn.racingnews365.com/_975xAUTO ... 1725126075

https://racingnews365.com/why-the-mclar ... -f1-rivals

That is true. However, they also didn't bring circuit-specific front wing flaps. They had Spa flaps and regular flaps with a decent cutout. They didn't share any details (from what I saw) but it's a good guess they couldn't balance the rear with their strong front end without Spa wing. In a way, this forced them to run hard in corners and to eventualy make a 2-stop race.

[Sphere3758]

So Carlos Sainz has 60 million dollars from Santander following him out of Ferrari and possibly into Williams. That's double of what Perez's money allegedly is. Red Bull could have had Sainz and 60 million dollars instead of Perez and 30 million. What a fumble that was.

The money is just one part of the equation. Sainz will be much more of a thorn on Max's side than Perez has ever been and will genuinely beat Max in qualifying enough times a year to be a pain. Him being that close to Charles in qualifying almost everytime is testament to that. Redbull just cannot afford to piss Max off at this point and make him switch teams.

[bluechris]

So Carlos Sainz has 60 million dollars from Santander following him out of Ferrari and possibly into Williams. That's double of what Perez's money allegedly is. Red Bull could have had Sainz and 60 million dollars instead of Perez and 30 million. What a fumble that was.

Redbull just cannot afford to piss Max off at this point and make him switch teams.

Yeah... he is sooo happy in the last races..

[FittingMechanics]

I think Red Bull may end up being surprised when they bolt on Bahrain spec. The development is relentless.

With the pace of other cars now it is unlikely that they can dial out problems from the car. It will need to be on the edge to get the performance (just like today).

[Wouter]

Red Bull doesn't have time or budget to invest in a wing that works for 1 or 2 races when there are bigger questions about the car concept that need to be solved. Is this not obvious?

I understand the reasoning, but I disagree with its premise. Vegas will be the same thing, meaning they compromise two races knowingly. A Monza wing could have been done with 1 iteration, just copy Ferrari's wing and adapt the wing tips to existing endplates etc. They had to go through the trouble of designing a set of flaps for front wing in any case, so a few cases of CFD runs and maybe even a few WT runs had to be done for this spec. There is absolutely no performance engineering logic in their decision not to make a new wing and use it in at least 4 races, Monza and Vegas 24 and 25. Costs for a rear wing are quite low and they are by far the lowest for this spec, as tools are the smallest, machining time is shortest and loads are smallest so you need the least amount of materials too

.
Max stated that they need the money for a Monza wing for more important other things on the car.

Perez used all the money with his crashes.

[bananapeel23]

So Carlos Sainz has 60 million dollars from Santander following him out of Ferrari and possibly into Williams. That's double of what Perez's money allegedly is. Red Bull could have had Sainz and 60 million dollars instead of Perez and 30 million. What a fumble that was.

I agree, but I understand Red Bulls reasoning.

Leclerc is generally thought to be the single best qualifier in F1. Despite that Sainz is often troubling him in quali and they are (as far as I know) the two closest teammates in qualifying this season in terms of qualifying gap, even if Leclerc has him beat like 10-5.

Sainz would be a genuine problem for Max in quali, and has proven he isn’t often willing to play the team game. He wouldn’t let Red Bull make him a 2nd driver, and he’d be closer to Max than Rubens or Bottas ever were to Schumacher or Hamilton. He’s too good to be a 2nd driver, but not good enough to be a long term first driver in a top team.