2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[rijtuig]

For what exactly?

For failing to adapt the team to budget cap and non-PU-supremacy rule set

Isn't this a bit harsh?

Mercedes almost snatched P2 in the WCC in 2022 and ended up P2 in the WCC in 2023, with Hamilton P3 in the WDC. Mercedes have 3 race wins and several pole positions to their name in 2024. Mercedes is still a top team, and expecting the team principal to stop down after 3 decent seasons is quite ridiculous, especially after he led them to 8 straight WCCs and 7 straight WDCs.

Yes, however, Hamilton is leaving.

[214270]

For what exactly?

For failing to adapt the team to budget cap and non-PU-supremacy rule set

I don’t know how you’re so comfortable saying that given the season we’re currently enjoying. You do realise in less than 12 months it’s not completely inconceivable Merc become the benchmark platform?

Whatever slip-ups have happened, that’s clearly in the rearview & accounts for all of 2yrs out of his 11yr stint as boss. Look at Rb crumbling at its core after only 2yrs. Managerially, he’s sound - my greater prob is his assessment of racing talent; the stage is now set to determine that aspect conclusively.

[Lasssept]

For what exactly?

For failing to adapt the team to budget cap and non-PU-supremacy rule set

[214270]

Russel has great potential, but is still developing and improving in certain areas.

I'd expect him to be better in tire management being in the F1 for sometime now. But - he hasn't hit the ceiling yet.

In HAM you have arguably the best race day operator in the field & RUS has learned little matched against him. It’s quite unlikely having full access to HAM data, that he’s suddenly going to find the missing pieces when confronted with ANT data. RUS is formed as a racing pilot.

[214270]

On a separate note, ANT might’ve doubled our deconstructors losses in Monza after his 10min stint - that’s sobering

[Vanja #66]

Mercedes almost snatched P2 in the WCC in 2022 and ended up P2 in the WCC in 2023, with Hamilton P3 in the WDC. Mercedes have 3 race wins and several pole positions to their name in 2024. Mercedes is still a top team, and expecting the team principal to stop down after 3 decent seasons is quite ridiculous, especially after he led them to 8 straight WCCs and 7 straight WDCs.

They were never close to P2 in 22, no matter how hard Binotto tried not to take it

They ended up P2 in 23 after the worst unsporting move in Vegas after Crashgate 2008 (pushing to penalise Sainz after drain cover PU damage) and still finished with more than 100p less than previous year

Now they are stuck in 4th place, will take a miracle to get higher up and will need some luck to equal 23 points tally (based on last couple of races)

On the other side, his contribution to 15 titles in total is marginal. Brawn built up the early team (Schumi, Costa, Bell, Serra, Lowe, Geoff Willis, etc) and pointed Brixworth towards pushing like mad on 2014 PU before anyone else started thinking about hybrids. Lauda was taking care of drivers and did a decent job all in all. Wolff bought his way in and put himself as CEO and TP and basically took all the glory

You do realise in less than 12 months it’s not completely inconceivable Merc become the benchmark platform?

For that to happen, they will first need to trully understand what the car does and why. The only package that worked like they wanted it to is Monaco FW and subsequent floor update, meaning either 3/4 or 4/5 floor packages didn't work as they expected. They often put too much emphasis on Q and eat through their tyres in the race and it only worked on few completely cold weekends. You can't fake the entire season like that and points tally always tells the true story of the season

[Spoutnik]

Russel has great potential, but is still developing and improving in certain areas.

I'd expect him to be better in tire management being in the F1 for sometime now. But - he hasn't hit the ceiling yet.

He is 120 races and 5 years into F1. I think what we see now is pretty much all there will ever be. Despite some really good things, the common theme of his limitations comes on a Sunday when it counts.

Clearly. And thats why Im saying its the big mistake from Toto over the last few years.

Russell will never be better than Max or Lewis, and probably Leclerc in a championship winning car. Of course he's a great poacher in an outsider car but he's Jenson Button/Jarno Trulli or let's say Rosberg level. I don't think he will ever be more than that

That's not a problem. He can probably win one WDC like Button or Rosberg. The issue is that I still believe that the treatment Hamilton received, which was summarized by the 1 year contract (while Russell was treated as the new Michael Schumacher), is the reason why he's leaving.

Toto lost a 7 time WDC, still mega ln race day, who knows arguably the team well... for someone he's now trying to replace

He made himself a fool on this one imo

[Lasssept]

..and pointed Brixworth towards pushing like mad on 2014 PU before anyone else started thinking about hybrids.

F1: Renault Threatening To Quit Over 2013 Rules;
22:59, 07 June 2011

Ferrari and Mercedes are pushing for the 2013 engine rules to be delayed, FIA president Jean Todt has admitted.

"When I talk to those responsible at Renault they tell me they will go out of F1 if this new engine does not come in 2013. When I talk to Mercedes and Ferrari they ask me to postpone the introduction for a couple of years.

"They are not against the rules but want them postponed. So in the coming days I will keep up the contacts personally to see where we are," he added.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/f1-renaul ... 013-rules/

[TeamKoolGreen]

I see the Hamilton fans have got back to the regular programming. Writing off George Russell. That usually means a solid result for George isn't far away.

Cant drive on Sundays. Is that why he got 19 top 5's and a win in 2022? And is leading Hamilton in race and race pace head to heads

Russel minus the Piastri brake check at the start , had a better Sunday than Hamilton. A wing change and 4 second pit stop and there was still just one car separating him from Hamilton. And that was Max Verstappen. Who Russell was under 2 seconds behind at the end.

[Mosin123]

I see the Hamilton fans have got back to the regular programming. Writing off George Russell. That usually means a solid result for George isn't far away.

Cant drive on Sundays. Is that why he got 19 top 5's and a win in 2022? And is leading Hamilton in race and race pace head to heads

Russel minus the Piastri brake check at the start , had a better Sunday than Hamilton. A wing change and 4 second pit stop and there was still just one car separating him from Hamilton. And that was Max Verstappen. Who Russell was under 2 seconds behind at the end.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the points you earn on sunday, GR seems to earn far less even though he normally starts further up the grid.

Its no shock the person who puts every thing into saturday is winning saturday, and the more exp dude who knows points are won on sundays in leading the points.

[Henri]

Russel has great potential, but is still developing and improving in certain areas.

I'd expect him to be better in tire management being in the F1 for sometime now. But - he hasn't hit the ceiling yet.

He is 120 races and 5 years into F1. I think what we see now is pretty much all there will ever be. Despite some really good things, the common theme of his limitations comes on a Sunday when it counts.

Clearly. And thats why Im saying its the big mistake from Toto over the last few years.

Russell will never be better than Max or Lewis, and probably Leclerc in a championship winning car. Of course he's a great poacher in an outsider car but he's Jenson Button/Jarno Trulli or let's say Rosberg level. I don't think he will ever be more than that

That's not a problem. He can probably win one WDC like Button or Rosberg. The issue is that I still believe that the treatment Hamilton received, which was summarized by the 1 year contract (while Russell was treated as the new Michael Schumacher), is the reason why he's leaving.

Toto lost a 7 time WDC, still mega ln race day, who knows arguably the team well... for someone he's now trying to replace

He made himself a fool on this one imo

Even max is not on Lewis's level.. max is not proven against a top 5 driver.. george is doing well just Mercedes have not had a top 2 car since 2021

[PlatinumZealot]

They will be lost at sea in 2025 without Lewis to help develop the car. Mark my words.

[Dunlay]

They will be lost at sea in 2025 without Lewis to help develop the car. Mark my words.

He has been there for 3 years now, including 2024. He was there while 2022 car was being conceived.

[Dunlay]

He is 120 races and 5 years into F1. I think what we see now is pretty much all there will ever be. Despite some really good things, the common theme of his limitations comes on a Sunday when it counts.

Clearly. And thats why Im saying its the big mistake from Toto over the last few years.

Russell will never be better than Max or Lewis, and probably Leclerc in a championship winning car. Of course he's a great poacher in an outsider car but he's Jenson Button/Jarno Trulli or let's say Rosberg level. I don't think he will ever be more than that

That's not a problem. He can probably win one WDC like Button or Rosberg. The issue is that I still believe that the treatment Hamilton received, which was summarized by the 1 year contract (while Russell was treated as the new Michael Schumacher), is the reason why he's leaving.

Toto lost a 7 time WDC, still mega ln race day, who knows arguably the team well... for someone he's now trying to replace

He made himself a fool on this one imo

Even max is not on Lewis's level.. max is not proven against a top 5 driver.. george is doing well just Mercedes have not had a top 2 car since 2021

Max did beat Lewis in 2021 in a similarly matched machinery, despite having horrible luck and having been taken out twice (almost) by Mercedes drivers, also causing engine penalties. Still, I am not sure if there a case to be made as to who the better driver is.

[Henri]

Clearly. And thats why Im saying its the big mistake from Toto over the last few years.

Russell will never be better than Max or Lewis, and probably Leclerc in a championship winning car. Of course he's a great poacher in an outsider car but he's Jenson Button/Jarno Trulli or let's say Rosberg level. I don't think he will ever be more than that

That's not a problem. He can probably win one WDC like Button or Rosberg. The issue is that I still believe that the treatment Hamilton received, which was summarized by the 1 year contract (while Russell was treated as the new Michael Schumacher), is the reason why he's leaving.

Toto lost a 7 time WDC, still mega ln race day, who knows arguably the team well... for someone he's now trying to replace

He made himself a fool on this one imo

Even max is not on Lewis's level.. max is not proven against a top 5 driver.. george is doing well just Mercedes have not had a top 2 car since 2021

Max did beat Lewis in 2021 in a similarly matched machinery, despite having horrible luck and having been taken out twice (almost) by Mercedes drivers, also causing engine penalties. Still, I am not sure if there a case to be made as to who the better driver is.

Lewis destroyed max in 2021 in the last 4 races and needed masi to save him.. max should get George or leclerc as a teammate before he get highly rated.. riccardo beat him 2-1 and had more pole and podiums