2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Vanja #66]

I cannot for the life of me comprehend this new trend of thinking only the last race matters when judging performance or characteristics or whatever. Analyzing trends is far more important than one single race/race weekend.

In last 4 races the trend is the most positive of all top 4. Upward swing in results correlates fully with both temporary and now a permanent fix to Barcelona upgrade troubles

Yes, Ferrari on the whole has had worse tire degradation than Mclaren.

Haven't seen a better example of a freudian slip for a long time

[f1316]

What do we think about the chances in Baku and what drag levels do we think they will run?

My thoughts are:

(1) Leclerc is a demon there
(2) the car is good over bumps
(3) the Spa wing seemed like a good compromise and they performed better than expected
(4) in theory they should be stronger than Spa because the bouncing has been rectified + I would presume no one will be able to run the car quite so low in Baku given the bumps/curbs etc

All of which makes me fairly positive but what do folks think? The tow will probably be somewhat important in quali but not the be all end all like it once was.

[ScuderiaLeo]

What do we think about the chances in Baku and what drag levels do we think they will run?

My thoughts are:

(1) Leclerc is a demon there
(2) the car is good over bumps
(3) the Spa wing seemed like a good compromise and they performed better than expected
(4) in theory they should be stronger than Spa because the bouncing has been rectified + I would presume no one will be able to run the car quite so low in Baku given the bumps/curbs etc

All of which makes me fairly positive but what do folks think? The tow will probably be somewhat important in quali but not the be all end all like it once was.

I still ! think it's too early to tell how much the upgrades help. They certainly haven't made things worse but it's not possible to gauge how much they did on a track like Monza. Still, the outlook for Baku seems very positive and there are more things that help than hurt. Like you say, Leclerc has a fantastic track record:

F2: P1, P2 - one week after his father passed away
2018: P6 - his first points in F1
2019: P5, FL
2021: Pole, P4
2022: Pole, Mechanical DNF
2023: Pole, P3, P2

Sainz also has had decent results here. Never a podium, but never out of the points either.

[CjC]

I believe Sainz said Ferrari should be competitive in Baku and Singapore but he’s not sure about the high speed corners so wouldn’t predict anything for the American leg.

Is Baku and Singapore front or rear limited?

[Emag]

I believe Sainz said Ferrari should be competitive in Baku and Singapore but he’s not sure about the high speed corners so wouldn’t predict anything for the American leg.

Is Baku and Singapore front or rear limited?

Normally out of 90 degrees corners followed by straights you benefit more from a strong rear end. But don’t quote me on this.

[CjC]

I believe Sainz said Ferrari should be competitive in Baku and Singapore but he’s not sure about the high speed corners so wouldn’t predict anything for the American leg.

Is Baku and Singapore front or rear limited?

Normally out of 90 degrees corners followed by straights you benefit more from a strong rear end. But don’t quote me on this.

My thoughts too

[AR3-GP]

I believe Sainz said Ferrari should be competitive in Baku and Singapore but he’s not sure about the high speed corners so wouldn’t predict anything for the American leg.

Is Baku and Singapore front or rear limited?

Both rear limited.

[jrdls]

We have a lurker in this sub

[f1316]

What do we think about the chances in Baku and what drag levels do we think they will run?

My thoughts are:

(1) Leclerc is a demon there
(2) the car is good over bumps
(3) the Spa wing seemed like a good compromise and they performed better than expected
(4) in theory they should be stronger than Spa because the bouncing has been rectified + I would presume no one will be able to run the car quite so low in Baku given the bumps/curbs etc

All of which makes me fairly positive but what do folks think? The tow will probably be somewhat important in quali but not the be all end all like it once was.

I still ! think it's too early to tell how much the upgrades help. They certainly haven't made things worse but it's not possible to gauge how much they did on a track like Monza. Still, the outlook for Baku seems very positive and there are more things that help than hurt. Like you say, Leclerc has a fantastic track record:

F2: P1, P2 - one week after his father passed away
2018: P6 - his first points in F1
2019: P5, FL
2021: Pole, P4
2022: Pole, Mechanical DNF
2023: Pole, P3, P2

Sainz also has had decent results here. Never a podium, but never out of the points either.

Yes and don’t forget:

2019: was in with a good shot at pole before crashing in Q2 - looked quicker than Seb all weekend
2022: mechanical failure *while leading*

The fact that he hasn’t actually won here is kinda the oddity!

Agree re the update and its effectiveness not being proven yet - this is why I say “in theory”. I also kinda get the impression from the drivers’ comments (and note, this is a completely subjective impression) that they kinda expect it to help but not completely eradicate all bouncing which is possibly just an inherent compromise of the car/suspension (with benefit on tracks like Baku in terms of curb/bump riding).

[Xyz22]

What do we think about the chances in Baku and what drag levels do we think they will run?

My thoughts are:

(1) Leclerc is a demon there
(2) the car is good over bumps
(3) the Spa wing seemed like a good compromise and they performed better than expected
(4) in theory they should be stronger than Spa because the bouncing has been rectified + I would presume no one will be able to run the car quite so low in Baku given the bumps/curbs etc

All of which makes me fairly positive but what do folks think? The tow will probably be somewhat important in quali but not the be all end all like it once was.

I still ! think it's too early to tell how much the upgrades help. They certainly haven't made things worse but it's not possible to gauge how much they did on a track like Monza. Still, the outlook for Baku seems very positive and there are more things that help than hurt. Like you say, Leclerc has a fantastic track record:

F2: P1, P2 - one week after his father passed away
2018: P6 - his first points in F1
2019: P5, FL
2021: Pole, P4
2022: Pole, Mechanical DNF
2023: Pole, P3, P2

Sainz also has had decent results here. Never a podium, but never out of the points either.

Yes and don’t forget:

2019: was in with a good shot at pole before crashing in Q2 - looked quicker than Seb all weekend
2022: mechanical failure *while leading*

The fact that he hasn’t actually won here is kinda the oddity!

Agree re the update and its effectiveness not being proven yet - this is why I say “in theory”. I also kinda get the impression from the drivers’ comments (and note, this is a completely subjective impression) that they kinda expect it to help but not completely eradicate all bouncing which is possibly just an inherent compromise of the car/suspension (with benefit on tracks like Baku in terms of curb/bump riding).

Unfortunately, the cars were not good enough in race trim to win. Even the F1 75 was struggling to keep up with the RB 18 in the race.

Maybe this is the year, though.

[bananapeel23]

Unfortunately, the cars were not good enough in race trim to win. Even the F1 75 was struggling to keep up with the RB 18 in the race.

Maybe this is the year, though.

It should work out better this year given the fact that the Red Bull really struggles with bumpy tracks and McLaren really only being amazing in high speed corners. Obviously McLaren is great in every type of corner, but their biggest advantage over Ferrari is definitely in the high speed.

I'm guessing quali will be a tossup, leaning towards a Leclerc pole given his quali record here. As for the race, it probably comes down to whoever has the best tyre wear. This should really be a good track for Ferrari, albeit not as good as Singapore.

[Emag]

Unfortunately, the cars were not good enough in race trim to win. Even the F1 75 was struggling to keep up with the RB 18 in the race.

Maybe this is the year, though.

It should work out better this year given the fact that the Red Bull really struggles with bumpy tracks and McLaren really only being amazing in high speed corners. Obviously McLaren is great in every type of corner, but their biggest advantage over Ferrari is definitely in the high speed.

I'm guessing quali will be a tossup, leaning towards a Leclerc pole given his quali record here. As for the race, it probably comes down to whoever has the best tyre wear. This should really be a good track for Ferrari, albeit not as good as Singapore.

No longer true. This was the strongest point of their car last year and actually by a decent margin but the MCL60(b) was atrocious on slower-speed stuff, so they had this peaky very track-dependent performance ceiling.

This year, since Miami, the MCL38(b) has probably been the most balanced car on the grid, but they have lost the high-speed advantage they had last year. RedBull is the benchmark in those corner-types (although I am not entirely certain if that remains true with their recently increasing balance issues) and I would say Ferrari is almost equal if not better at the right conditions. McLaren this year excels at medium-speed corners and long-ish corners in general, the exact area that was their biggest weakness last year. It's not like they are a huge step above anyway, but the fact that they can maintain a wide performance range across different corner types is what makes them competitive, i.e they don't have to sacrifice (much) performance in one corner-type to gain performance in another.

[FDD]

I am so sorry that the update did not work

Comment of the Year

On a serious note, if Leclerc had a 0.1s a lap slower car, Oscar would have caught him by lap 50 and overtaken him by the end easily. Equally, Sainz would have been P5 very, very likely. That is how small the margins are for months now

Yes margins are quite tight, we saw that also from qualy results.

[Vanja #66]

What do we think about the chances in Baku and what drag levels do we think they will run?

My thoughts are:

(1) Leclerc is a demon there
(2) the car is good over bumps
(3) the Spa wing seemed like a good compromise and they performed better than expected
(4) in theory they should be stronger than Spa because the bouncing has been rectified + I would presume no one will be able to run the car quite so low in Baku given the bumps/curbs etc

All of which makes me fairly positive but what do folks think? The tow will probably be somewhat important in quali but not the be all end all like it once was.

On paper, McLaren and Red Bull should be favourites ahead of Ferrari. Baku is a single stop race now, so Ferrari won't be able to exploit their slightly better deg. Maybe they can use Softs in the first stint, but that seems too optimistic for Baku. However, we might see some struggles with RB again, if they can't find the right balance over bumps and kerbs.

Unfortunately, McLaren used their Spa package with slightly smaller beam wing in Monza, while Ferrari used Monza spec, so we can't make direct cornering comparisons with this discrepancy. With that said, it was good to see very small difference in Q in Lesmos (2-3 kmh lower apex speed) and Parabolica (6 kmh lower) since last year Max had +6 in Lesmo 2 and +9 in Parabolica - with a Spa-Monza hybrid package.

If they get close to McLaren in Baku, they will be close in Singapore and most of upcoming races too.

[Seanspeed]

Have we just finished watching a race in which both Ferraris finished on a 1 stopper with a race pace similar to the rest and somehow you say it's worse than MCL in terms of tire deg?

I don't understand why some folks need to just negate facts in front of them.

I cannot for the life of me comprehend this new trend of thinking only the last race matters when judging performance or characteristics or whatever. Analyzing trends is far more important than one single race/race weekend.

Yes, Ferrari on the whole has had worse tire degradation than Mclaren. It's a strength of the car relative to previous years, but it's not something that has especially enhanced Ferrari's competitiveness over the top competition this season, either. I think that's an entirely reasonable claim. Monza was an exception, not the rule.

We must not be watching the same season because I have not seen McLaren exhibiting consistently superior tire deg to Ferrari on the balance of the 2024 season. They’ve simply had a faster car since Miami.

A not-insignificant part of their 'faster car' advantage has literally been their amazing ability to still have great pace late in a stint/race.

This is something that is pretty well observed by pretty much any reasonable person watching. But for some reason, this topic is full of bizarro takes on pretty much everything.