Flexiwings 2024

[Vanja #66]

Excuse the chunky lines, but this is Norris during FP3 at Monza. ~36mins on the F1tv stream for anyone else to look at)

Could you make or find a clip from a Merc nose cam (looking at front wing) at any race between Canada and Hungary and one from Zandvoort? This flap flutter that AR3 observed is really interesting and I wonder if it was there before

[TimW]

The current tests only stipulate forces being applied in the DOWNWARD direction. FIA/FOM just needs to introduce a testing procedure that pulls on the wing flaps at various locations and see if it can pull on one element beyond the prescribed limits without then causing another element to then continue the motion. It's very feasible to create a wing that passes downward force tests but is easy to bend up in the upward direction ( ex airline wings etc ). The rules don't stipulate restriction with regard to the upward motion or force applied.

In both avian and aquatic biomechanics, fluttering or treading is a form of maintaining horizontal stabilization. Rays do it to glide along the sea floor without kicking up sand.

FIA needs to get rid of the load testing and define a geometric shape tolerance which is monitored by camera and based on the original undeformed wing shape.

The FIA needs to get rid of the ban on using aeroelasticity. Just let them play!

[organic]

Excuse the chunky lines, but this is Norris during FP3 at Monza. ~36mins on the F1tv stream for anyone else to look at)

This is crazy

[organic]

We were having a discussion about whether or not there is intent in the fluttering of the Mercedes front wing. The footage from Monza shows that the Mercedes front wing flutters much more than others even in the normal aero conditions and in the absence of curb strikes:




So this isn't something that's just because a curb was struck harder than other cars in the footage. The Mercedes wing just flutters more. That is the way it is designed.

The flutter is very pronounced here yes.. clearly not just the kerbstrikes causing this. Seems to be designed to stay in a flutter at higher speeds ?

[mclaren111]

We were having a discussion about whether or not there is intent in the fluttering of the Mercedes front wing. The footage from Monza shows that the Mercedes front wing flutters much more than others even in the normal aero conditions and in the absence of curb strikes:




So this isn't something that's just because a curb was struck harder than other cars in the footage. The Mercedes wing just flutters more. That is the way it is designed.

The flutter is very pronounced here yes.. clearly not just the kerbstrikes causing this. Seems to be designed to stay in a flutter at higher speeds ?

RBR's wing moves quite a bit as well... Clearly RBR BS Again...

[chrisc90]

We were having a discussion about whether or not there is intent in the fluttering of the Mercedes front wing. The footage from Monza shows that the Mercedes front wing flutters much more than others even in the normal aero conditions and in the absence of curb strikes:




So this isn't something that's just because a curb was struck harder than other cars in the footage. The Mercedes wing just flutters more. That is the way it is designed.

The flutter is very pronounced here yes.. clearly not just the kerbstrikes causing this. Seems to be designed to stay in a flutter at higher speeds ?

RBR's wing moves quite a bit as well... Clearly RBR BS Again...

It’s significantly more compliant than the McLaren.

[organic]

We were having a discussion about whether or not there is intent in the fluttering of the Mercedes front wing. The footage from Monza shows that the Mercedes front wing flutters much more than others even in the normal aero conditions and in the absence of curb strikes:




So this isn't something that's just because a curb was struck harder than other cars in the footage. The Mercedes wing just flutters more. That is the way it is designed.

The flutter is very pronounced here yes.. clearly not just the kerbstrikes causing this. Seems to be designed to stay in a flutter at higher speeds ?

RBR's wing moves quite a bit as well... Clearly RBR BS Again...

I'm sorry but it's blatant that Ferrari/RB are using an entirely different front wing concept to Merc/McLaren. This isn't some fake news story .just looking at how low the frontal area of Ferrari and rb's front wings are compared to the other two should be enough to tell you this

[Tommy Cookers]

It's very feasible to create a wing that passes downward force tests but is easy to bend up in the upward direction ( ex airline wings etc )....

is this saying that 'airline wings' are more 'bendy' in the upward direction ? ....

[bluechris]

As a great man once said, i wait for the RB/Ferrari revelation in the upcomming races

‘How could we be so dumb?!’ – Allison on the Mercedes revelation that means they can now ‘be as fast as anybody’
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 65FyfzTqRt

[SiLo]

Aston Martin must be pretty annoyed with the inconsistency of the FIA. They were forced to change their front wing mid season, while this is allowed. Also their creative rear wing end plate solution was made illegal, while the outwashing front wing to endplate connections pioneered by Mercedes are allowed to this day.

Don't get me wrong, I think they way they are handling this case is the correct way. It should always be done this way. The rules should not be changed mid season to close a loophole.
But the inconsistency and lack of transparency annoys me. I cannot escape the impression that this is politics to help the show, or specific teams.

Aston were flexing the NOSE, which is an entirely different thing.

[AR3-GP]

The current tests only stipulate forces being applied in the DOWNWARD direction. FIA/FOM just needs to introduce a testing procedure that pulls on the wing flaps at various locations and see if it can pull on one element beyond the prescribed limits without then causing another element to then continue the motion. It's very feasible to create a wing that passes downward force tests but is easy to bend up in the upward direction ( ex airline wings etc ). The rules don't stipulate restriction with regard to the upward motion or force applied.

In both avian and aquatic biomechanics, fluttering or treading is a form of maintaining horizontal stabilization. Rays do it to glide along the sea floor without kicking up sand.

FIA needs to get rid of the load testing and define a geometric shape tolerance which is monitored by camera and based on the original undeformed wing shape.

The FIA needs to get rid of the ban on using aeroelasticity. Just let them play!

Yes either option is satisfactory. The current version where the decision depend on what is convenient for the championship is questionable.

If Red Bull started the year with a wing like the Mclaren and they had a 0.5 second performance advantage, the FIA would have reigned them in by Saudi Arabia.

[peewon]

Tombazis has since confirmed the FIA "will not react until 2025 at the earliest, if necessary".

Explaining why to Auto, Motor und Sport, he added: "This would not only have an impact on aerodynamics but also on the structure of the parts.

"Even if we were to announce a new rule today, the teams would not be ready before Abu Dhabi.”

https://racingnews365.com/fia-explains- ... d-mercedes

I have never heard the FIA cite the affected team's ability to replace the part quickly as an excuse for not introducing a new regulation. They introduced one mid season in 2021 and last year they introduced TD018 (clamp down on flexi wings) in September with Singapore GP being the first one affected by it. Suddenly in 2024 its too late in the season for teams to respond so they dont so anything.How? Weeks ago I made the case of FIA favoring certain teams and to me this is just further confirmation. AM had to literally drop their wing last season and plummeted. List goes on and on. They always have a finger on the pulse to drive their commercial interests.

[dialtone]

Tombazis has since confirmed the FIA "will not react until 2025 at the earliest, if necessary".

Explaining why to Auto, Motor und Sport, he added: "This would not only have an impact on aerodynamics but also on the structure of the parts.

"Even if we were to announce a new rule today, the teams would not be ready before Abu Dhabi.”

https://racingnews365.com/fia-explains- ... d-mercedes

I have never heard the FIA cite the affected team's ability to replace the part quickly as an excuse for not introducing a new regulation. They introduced one mid season in 2021 and last year they introduced TD018 (clamp down on flexi wings) in September with Singapore GP being the first one affected by it. Suddenly in 2024 its too late in the season for teams to respond so they dont so anything.How? Weeks ago I made the case of FIA favoring certain teams and to me this is just further confirmation. AM had to literally drop their wing last season and plummeted. List goes on and on. They always have a finger on the pulse to drive their commercial interests.

Lol yeah, it's a ridiculous reasoning. Did they give time to teams to adapt to TD39 properly? Didn't give time to Aston Martin to adapt their wing. Very funny.

[chrisc90]

Could you make or find a clip from a Merc nose cam (looking at front wing) at any race between Canada and Hungary and one from Zandvoort? This flap flutter that AR3 observed is really interesting and I wonder if it was there before

Here's a couple from Russel from Austria.





And one from the Dutch GP.



If you want any others from different races/teams, just give me a shout and ill see what I can find.

[AR3-GP]

Tombazis has since confirmed the FIA "will not react until 2025 at the earliest, if necessary".

Explaining why to Auto, Motor und Sport, he added: "This would not only have an impact on aerodynamics but also on the structure of the parts.

"Even if we were to announce a new rule today, the teams would not be ready before Abu Dhabi.”

https://racingnews365.com/fia-explains- ... d-mercedes

This is a bad look...