2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[venkyhere]

I am much more angry for the presumption errors the trackside team made, thinking that you can overtake easily in Budapest, that you can afford an engine penalty in the possibly only track left where win is achievable, not to mention the clown shows with the brakes in Melbourne and the engine in Montreal, which costed a ton of points.

While I agree with most of your points, the one I disagree will be about spa. They had to take a new engine ? Which other track would you rather take the engine ? They proved themselves by being fastest in Q. It turned out that the shortened DRS zones (which they could have modelled into sims) and most importantly, the massive tailwind from EauRouge to the the 90 degree turn at the end of straight made overtaking very hard, not just for Redbull, for all teams. That couldn't be predicted, so we should cut some slack there.

I somehow think it would be better to be not WCC this year.

What do you mean ? They won't win the WCC this year, it's clear as daylight.

There's no need to sugarcoat it like racingnews365 have. They've cobbled together a floor made of parts they don't think are problematic. And they're experimenting still to see if they can find where exactly they went wrong

sounds like Mercedes circa 2022

[venkyhere]

They are learning they can't solve the problem of the front with fixes to the floor or rear

The more I hear from the team, the more I am convinced that the root cause of all their issues lies somewhere in the suspension. Something in their kinematics/aero makes the suspension (front especially) need to be made of cement. But if they soften, it may screw up the floor performance or necessitate the softening of rear as well, affecting diffuser, balance etc etc. It must be like untangling a spool of yarn that's come out of a washing machine - either you need lots of time or you need a pair of super-clever eyes.

[Sergej]

I am much more angry for the presumption errors the trackside team made, thinking that you can overtake easily in Budapest, that you can afford an engine penalty in the possibly only track left where win is achievable, not to mention the clown shows with the brakes in Melbourne and the engine in Montreal, which costed a ton of points.

While I agree with most of your points, the one I disagree will be about spa. They had to take a new engine ? Which other track would you rather take the engine ? They proved themselves by being fastest in Q. It turned out that the shortened DRS zones (which they could have modelled into sims) and most importantly, the massive tailwind from EauRouge to the the 90 degree turn at the end of straight made overtaking very hard, not just for Redbull, for all teams. That couldn't be predicted, so we should cut some slack there.

first of all it's perfectly fine not to agree on something, we are humans with different opinions and it's fine like this on that particular regard, my opinion is that, back in late July, it was already clear that for RB would have been very difficult to win more races in the remaining season, and that Spa would have been one the few (very few...) chances to win, so I would have gone for it, I am pretty sure that it was affordable from an engine situation point of view; personally I would have served the penalty in Monza where the win was on paper much less achievable (due also to Ferrari strike back which was entirely predictable....Monza), you can say it's easy to say this in hindsight but if you go back on this thread at the days prior to Spa you will find that many of us were skeptical at taking the penalty there.

[Dunlay]

I am much more angry for the presumption errors the trackside team made, thinking that you can overtake easily in Budapest, that you can afford an engine penalty in the possibly only track left where win is achievable, not to mention the clown shows with the brakes in Melbourne and the engine in Montreal, which costed a ton of points.

While I agree with most of your points, the one I disagree will be about spa. They had to take a new engine ? Which other track would you rather take the engine ? They proved themselves by being fastest in Q. It turned out that the shortened DRS zones (which they could have modelled into sims) and most importantly, the massive tailwind from EauRouge to the the 90 degree turn at the end of straight made overtaking very hard, not just for Redbull, for all teams. That couldn't be predicted, so we should cut some slack there.

first of all it's perfectly fine not to agree on something, we are humans with different opinions and it's fine like this on that particular regard, my opinion is that, back in late July, it was already clear that for RB would have been very difficult to win more races in the remaining season, and that Spa would have been one the few (very few...) chances to win, so I would have gone for it, I am pretty sure that it was affordable from an engine situation point of view; personally I would have served the penalty in Monza where the win was on paper much less achievable (due also to Ferrari strike back which was entirely predictable....Monza), you can say it's easy to say this in hindsight but if you go back on this thread at the days prior to Spa you will find that many of us were skeptical at taking the penalty there.

Damn if you do it, damn if you don't. That's how things go for teams from a fan's perspective. Spa has been the usual place for engine penalties for most teams for years now. Red Bull ended up having Mercedes suddenly finding form on an unexpected track. That's entirely outside of any calculations a team can do. I am not sure when was a decision made to shorten the DRS length, but there were plenty of cars still doing overtakes on the day. Max still managed to finish ahead of Lando, which I am sure was also outside of the calculations. When you consider taking engine penalty at the most appropriate track, you would have baked in the fact that your opponent might end up winning it and you finish somewhere in top 3, best case or top 4, worst case. I don't see how different was the outcome, regardless of the events that unfolded.

[Sergej]

as anticipated here's the Frenkenstein floor

[pantherxxx]

In Frankenstein floor we trust. As a Verstappen fan, let's hope Red Bull's aero department know what they're doing.

[Paa]

In Frankenstein floor we trust. As a Verstappen fan, let's hope Red Bull's aero department know what they're doing.

As I understand, currently they are not after performance, but would just like to tame the car by getting the balance right. (of course this itself can unlock some performance).

I'm cautiously optimistic as they stated that now they only consider real world data (from track), ignoring sim and WT values. And they could make lot of comparison tests from running the old floors in recent races + Monza test.
Of course I don't expect miracles, but if they could be in the podium fights in the next two races, then it is nice damage limitation.
Then hopefully they can add some performance in Austin to secure the WDC.

They kind of have to as if they fail to do the above, then probably WCC/WDC gone.

[Sergej]

losing a ton of time on the 2km straight at the moment

[Sevach]

Car looks ok right now.
Losing a lot on the straight though.

[Sergej]

decent FP1, also Perez looks ok

great S1 and S2, massive loss in S3, hopefully some engine trick

[Juzh]

Ho-lee-fuk straights are absolute massacre. I checked hamilton's onboard, he doesn't have any slipstream, despite commentators repeatedly saying so.

[Paa]

Anybody having access to telemetry can check if S3 loss is from power or drag?

BTW, it seemed to me that Merc looks particularly quick there, rather than Red Bull really slow. Most teams lost multiple tenths to Merc in S3.

[Juzh]

Anybody having access to telemetry can check if S3 loss is from power or drag?

BTW, it seemed to me that Merc looks particularly quick there, rather than Red Bull really slow. Most teams lost multiple tenths to Merc in S3.

f1-tempo will have it in about 30 minutes. official f1 app is crapping out as usual this year.

[TwanV]

Hamilton had a slipstream I believe, all drivers lost about four tenths in s3 relative to his time. Car looks good

[Cassius]

Hamilton had a slipstream I believe, all drivers lost about four tenths in s3 relative to his time. Car looks good

Hamilton did not have a slipstream on his fastest lap. He was fast all session in s3.

We have to see whether Merc are just really efficient, or whether there were some engine mode differences between Merc and the rest. Russell was also quite fast in s3.