McLaren MCL38

[mwillems]

But the point being made earlier in the season was that difference on overall speed on the straight was non existent. There was a fraction of a straight that lost .01 of a second, otherwise we matched other cars. RW was a red herring, as we say in the UK. Folks just get hung up.on a top speed and don't look at the overall acceleration curve. Even with DRS open, the point at which there was a meaningful difference was for the last 25m or so.

But anyway, we're just going old convos

That's not really the case, McLaren lost at least 2 tenths on straights in Q on every track until Miami, they lost 3-4 tenths in Jeddah for example. In Miami and afterwards the difference is a lot smaller, but more often than not RB still keep their slight Top Speed advantage over McL. You can see for yourself on f1-tempo

I'll look later but I'm fairly certain we weren't losing that time.

Edit: Jeddah was bad but a quick eye test on the others suggests it wasn't really much of an issue I think, but I'm on my phone, will do something a bit more accurate later. Australia looks fine, for instance.

In any case, the initial point was that they were running more rear wing because they were loading the front more.

[Matt2725]

Interesting movement on the rear wing I noted on Oscar's onboard, which was also noted by others it looks like.

Looks like the upper plane moves up at the leading edge at high speed creating a slightly larger opening.

[Marc.W]

Interesting movement on the rear wing I noted on Oscar's onboard, which was also noted by others it looks like.

Looks like the upper plane moves up at the leading edge at high speed creating a slightly larger opening.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXhGOioXsAE7kxD?format=jpg

I'm more interested in what kind of effect the vortex that creates will have

[Venturiation]

Video of the rear wing

[Emag]

Just looking at the rear wings of other teams, the drs opening does widen slightly on all of them, but it's insignificant. All have some flap flex going on in high speed though so I am assuming that's normal. The thing that's different here is the twisting of the tips which opens up the gap a bit more, mostly on the edges.

Not sure how much of a drag benefit you get from this, but even 1 or 2 kmh extra is worth it with how tight the field is. The only problem I have with it is the fact that it widens the DRS opening and surely that goes beyond just the flexing which may be within the allowance in itself.

[Zynerji]

Just looking at the rear wings of other teams, the drs opening does widen slightly on all of them, but it's insignificant. All have some flap flex going on in high speed though so I am assuming that's normal. The thing that's different here is the twisting of the tips which opens up the gap a bit more, mostly on the edges.

Not sure how much of a drag benefit you get from this, but even 1 or 2 kmh extra is worth it with how tight the field is. The only problem I have with it is the fact that it widens the DRS opening and surely that goes beyond just the flexing which may be within the allowance in itself.

I would deem it significant. Anything that can be seen and noticed by the eye is big enough to make a difference. If it was visually imperceptible, not so much.

[.Bole]

They are saying its more like 3-4kmph

[Emag]

Just looking at the rear wings of other teams, the drs opening does widen slightly on all of them, but it's insignificant. All have some flap flex going on in high speed though so I am assuming that's normal. The thing that's different here is the twisting of the tips which opens up the gap a bit more, mostly on the edges.

Not sure how much of a drag benefit you get from this, but even 1 or 2 kmh extra is worth it with how tight the field is. The only problem I have with it is the fact that it widens the DRS opening and surely that goes beyond just the flexing which may be within the allowance in itself.

I would deem it significant. Anything that can be seen and noticed by the eye is big enough to make a difference. If it was visually imperceptible, not so much.

Not sure if I missunderstood, or you missunderstood, but I meant for other teams the widening that happens under load is not significant and it's pretty much useless in terms of gain.

As for the flap moving a bit under load, that's also normal and it happens to all of them.

What's different about this is that the flap tips are flexing upwards under high-speed and opening up the gap slightly more, mostly at the edges of the flap.

[Emag]

They are saying its more like 3-4kmph

Who are they?

[Farnborough]

Observable as quite considerable shift under full speed loading.

There's substantial gain in area of gap opened between "static" and full movement accumulated.

Thats bound to attract attention from other teams and FIA.

[Vappy]

Very clever

[.Bole]

They are saying its more like 3-4kmph

Who are they?

F1 journalist insiders

[.poz]

i think that this mini-drs is a little bit more than borderline especially for the letter g of 3.10.10

3.10.10 Drag Reduction System (DRS)
The entire RW Flap described in Article 3.10.1, including any gurney if fitted, part of the rearward most section from any regions of the Rear Wing Tip described in Article 3.10.5where there are exactly two sections in an intersection with any plane that contains the X-aligned axis [Y,Z]= [480, 670], and the portions of the Rear Wing Separators defined in 3.10.6 that are attached to these components, may be rotated about a fixed axis whilst the car is inmotion. All bodywork to be rotated shall be known as “DRS Bodywork”

Furthermore:

a. No part of the “DRS Bodywork” may lie outboard of Y=490.

b. The axis of rotation of the RW Flap must be fixed and located no more than 20mm below the upper extremity and no more than 20mm forward of the rear extremity of RV-RW-PROFILES at all times.

c. There must be no relative movement between the constituent parts of the DRS Bodywork.

d. Any such variation of incidence maintains compliance with all of the bodywork regulations with the exception of Article 3.10.1 and 3.10.5.

e. It cannot be used to change the geometry of any duct, either directly or indirectly, other than the change to the distance between adjacent sections permitted by Article 3.10.1 and 3.10.5.

f. The design is such that failure of the system will result in the uppermost closed section returning to the normal high incidence position.

g. Any alteration of the incidence of the uppermost closed section may only be commanded by direct driver input and controlled using the control electronics specified in Article 8.3.

h. At any Y plane, the distance between the two sections of the Rear Wing Profiles at their closest position must lie between 10mm and 85mm

[Emag]

I am looking at it a bit more now and I was thinking that perhaps the tips are not what is flexing but rather the elements around the top flap are flexing in a way that is increasing the DRS gap under load.

Specifically this area around the top flap of the rear wing :



If you make the top connector more rigid, it will pull the top down while taking the sides down with them too, which would create this effect of bigger separation at the tips.

This way, the top flap (DRS flap) is technically staying motionless, but the other parts are moving around it to open the gap.

Maybe that's how they kept it within the rules.
I really doubt they brought an illegal car in the middle of a title fight and risk disqualification, but who knows. Even if it is technically legal, the FIA may intervene here.

[Matt2725]

I am looking at it a bit more now and I was thinking that perhaps the tips are not what is flexing but rather the elements around the top flap are flexing in a way that is increasing the DRS gap under load.

Specifically this area around the rear wing :

https://i.imgur.com/4w7BrkY.png

If you make the top connector more rigid, it will pull the top down while taking the sides down with them too, which would create this effect of bigger separation at the tips.

This way, the top flap is technically staying motionless, but the other parts are moving around it to open the gap.

Maybe that's how they kept it within the rules.
I really doubt they brought an illegal car in the middle of a title fight and risk disqualification, but who knows. Even if it is technically legal, the FIA may intervene here.

The gap between the upper and lower planes is clearly getting larger however. So there is obviously some relative movement between the two surfaces.