2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

People have short memories and its popular to bash on McLaren right now.

It’s funny when people use the “spirit of regulations” as if that’s something any of the teams is trying so hard to stay within.

S-duct, double-decker diffuser, blown diffuser, F-duct, mass damper system, the fuel flow limit bypass, das etc …

Surely, all of these were carefully crafted to be within the spirit of the rules. Nobody would want to break that. Come on …

It’s literally this year that Mercedes came up with a front wing that could bring back the y250 vortex (to a certain degree), something that was a specific target to get rid off for these regulations, but nobody cared enough because Mercedes scrapped the idea. It did not work.

And nobody cares in F1, as long as you’re not winning. To use this “spirit of the rules” as an argument to claim some sort of moral highground is so absurd.

As long as things are technically legal, then that’s the best kind of legal the teams would be looking for in the sport. No one is out there trying to “respect” the rules and their intention. They’re there to win.

"People have short memories and its popular to bash on McLaren right now."

That's exactly why it is clickbait. It'd be the same for whomever overtook RB in the championship though.

That said, I've posted in the car thread, RW has a good amount of flex but not for the areas highlighted. I'll leave the rest of my RW conversation to that thread.

[bauc]

People have short memories and its popular to bash on McLaren right now.

It’s funny when people use the “spirit of regulations” as if that’s something any of the teams is trying so hard to stay within.

S-duct, double-decker diffuser, blown diffuser, F-duct, mass damper system, the fuel flow limit bypass, das etc …

Surely, all of these were carefully crafted to be within the spirit of the rules. Nobody would want to break that. Come on …

It’s literally this year that Mercedes came up with a front wing that could bring back the y250 vortex (to a certain degree), something that was a specific target to get rid off for these regulations, but nobody cared enough because Mercedes scrapped the idea. It did not work.

And nobody cares in F1, as long as you’re not winning. To use this “spirit of the rules” as an argument to claim some sort of moral highground is so absurd.

As long as things are technically legal, then that’s the best kind of legal the teams would be looking for in the sport. No one is out there trying to “respect” the rules and their intention. They’re there to win.

"People have short memories and its popular to bash on McLaren right now."

That's exactly why it is clickbait. It'd be the same for whomever overtook RB in the championship though.

That said, I've posted in the car thread, RW has a good amount of flex but not for the areas highlighted. I'll leave the rest of my RW conversation to that thread.

I don't want us to go further off topic but I must say that some of the inventions above were not illegal, they were simply not forbidden by the rules, such as the F-duct, or the Mclaren 3rd pedal for rear Axcel braking only, the mass damper from Renault, those and many others were not against the rules, were not illegal on paper per se.... but they were deemed illegal as going against the ''spirit'' of the rules and latter on a wording was placed in the rulebook to prevent the same.

[mwillems]

People have short memories and its popular to bash on McLaren right now.

It’s funny when people use the “spirit of regulations” as if that’s something any of the teams is trying so hard to stay within.

S-duct, double-decker diffuser, blown diffuser, F-duct, mass damper system, the fuel flow limit bypass, das etc …

Surely, all of these were carefully crafted to be within the spirit of the rules. Nobody would want to break that. Come on …

It’s literally this year that Mercedes came up with a front wing that could bring back the y250 vortex (to a certain degree), something that was a specific target to get rid off for these regulations, but nobody cared enough because Mercedes scrapped the idea. It did not work.

And nobody cares in F1, as long as you’re not winning. To use this “spirit of the rules” as an argument to claim some sort of moral highground is so absurd.

As long as things are technically legal, then that’s the best kind of legal the teams would be looking for in the sport. No one is out there trying to “respect” the rules and their intention. They’re there to win.

"People have short memories and its popular to bash on McLaren right now."

That's exactly why it is clickbait. It'd be the same for whomever overtook RB in the championship though.

That said, I've posted in the car thread, RW has a good amount of flex but not for the areas highlighted. I'll leave the rest of my RW conversation to that thread.

I don't want us to go further off topic but I must say that some of the inventions above were not illegal, they were simply not forbidden by the rules, such as the F-duct, or the Mclaren 3rd pedal for rear Axcel braking only, the mass damper from Renault, those and many others were not against the rules, were not illegal on paper per se.... but they were deemed illegal as going against the ''spirit'' of the rules and latter on a wording was placed in the rulebook to prevent the same.

Those outer edges aren't the main gain, the whole top of the flap flexes substantially, there could be a TD incoming, we'll just have to go through the same process as the front wings. Either we change our rear wing or other teams have to develop what we have done. Nothing more to say other than comparting it to other cars for context. Let's see if the FIA have anything to say on it. But it won't impact this season I don't think.

[FittingMechanics]

[Jambier]

https://i.imgur.com/knrn4UT.png

A classic McLaren / Ferrari 1-2 to conclude this championship is possible

RBR might finish P3 this year

[Shader]

The attention the Mclaren receives doesn't bother me. It's typical that at the front you get a lot of scrutiny.

The front wing flex has been and gone and I expect the same of the rear wing flex. But even if there's a TD, I don't think it's a game changer. Largely it's something produced by news outlets to get fans excited. Not exactly clickbait, but close enough.

McLaren simply made the best of the established rules and regulations. All the talk about "cheating" started once they got close to retaking lead in WCC, no one was complaining before that. Other teams should simply step up or shut up. They definitely need to clean their own doorstep instead of pointing finger at others for their own lack of performance and ingenuity. McLaren also used to do that on occasion.... but only once they admitted their own mistakes, they began their revival, and here, we are, today.

[bananapeel23]

The attention the Mclaren receives doesn't bother me. It's typical that at the front you get a lot of scrutiny.

The front wing flex has been and gone and I expect the same of the rear wing flex. But even if there's a TD, I don't think it's a game changer. Largely it's something produced by news outlets to get fans excited. Not exactly clickbait, but close enough.

McLaren simply made the best of the established rules and regulations. All the talk about "cheating" started once they got close to retaking lead in WCC, no one was complaining before that. Other teams should simply step up or shut up. They definitely need to clean their own doorstep instead of pointing finger at other for their own lack of performance and ingenuity. McLaren also used to do that on occasion.... but only when they admitted their own incompetence, they began their revival, and here, we are today.

It's absolutely a clever use of the regulations, but it's also a worrying trend. McLaren has the most wing flex both in the front and in the rear. Their gap to Ferrari is tiny despite those wings, which is pretty worrying. McLaren seems to be leaning on wing flexing to have an advantage over the competition. If their entire pace advantage more or less relies on wings flexing, they risk being left in the dust if Ferrari and Red Bull bring similar solutions or if the flexiwings end up banned.

If their advantage relies solely on a clever interpretation of a grey area in the regulations that the others could pursue, but haven't done yet. That might mean that there is an overall lack of performance in the chassis and floor that is being made up by shedding drag on the straights through wing flex. Should Ferrari and Red Bull bring similar solutions, we would be back to a traditional aero and tyre fight. Given how close Ferrari seems to be, they may well have the best overall package if you remove the advantage from the flexiwings.

[FittingMechanics]

It's absolutely a clever use of the regulations, but it's also a worrying trend. McLaren has the most wing flex both in the front and in the rear. Their gap to Ferrari is tiny despite those wings, which is pretty worrying. McLaren seems to be leaning on wing flexing to have an advantage over the competition. If their entire pace advantage more or less relies on wings flexing, they risk being left in the dust if Ferrari and Red Bull bring similar solutions or if the flexiwings end up banned.

If their advantage relies solely on a clever interpretation of a grey area in the regulations that the others could pursue, but haven't done yet. That might mean that there is an overall lack of performance in the chassis and floor that is being made up by shedding drag on the straights through wing flex. Should Ferrari and Red Bull bring similar solutions, we would be back to a traditional aero and tyre fight. Given how close Ferrari seems to be, they may well have the best overall package if you remove the advantage from the flexiwings.

This is a strange take. It's worrying if McLaren has super wings because if that is the case, the rest of the car is slow and once others copy them they will be slow again? Sure - it might be. But what is the alternative, not make them and stay slow all the time?

Also this flexiwing saga makes no sense as McLaren was often bad in straight line. Their advantage was in medium speed corners not in the straights. If this flexibility of the wing was that important they would have been better on the straights (where they shed all that drag).

[Emag]

The attention the Mclaren receives doesn't bother me. It's typical that at the front you get a lot of scrutiny.

The front wing flex has been and gone and I expect the same of the rear wing flex. But even if there's a TD, I don't think it's a game changer. Largely it's something produced by news outlets to get fans excited. Not exactly clickbait, but close enough.

McLaren simply made the best of the established rules and regulations. All the talk about "cheating" started once they got close to retaking lead in WCC, no one was complaining before that. Other teams should simply step up or shut up. They definitely need to clean their own doorstep instead of pointing finger at other for their own lack of performance and ingenuity. McLaren also used to do that on occasion.... but only when they admitted their own incompetence, they began their revival, and here, we are today.

It's absolutely a clever use of the regulations, but it's also a worrying trend. McLaren has the most wing flex both in the front and in the rear. Their gap to Ferrari is tiny despite those wings, which is pretty worrying. McLaren seems to be leaning on wing flexing to have an advantage over the competition. If their entire pace advantage more or less relies on wings flexing, they risk being left in the dust if Ferrari and Red Bull bring similar solutions or if the flexiwings end up banned.

If their advantage relies solely on a clever interpretation of a grey area in the regulations that the others could pursue, but haven't done yet. That might mean that there is an overall lack of performance in the chassis and floor that is being made up by shedding drag on the straights through wing flex. Should Ferrari and Red Bull bring similar solutions, we would be back to a traditional aero and tyre fight. Given how close Ferrari seems to be, they may well have the best overall package if you remove the advantage from the flexiwings.

Don't you think the pace advantage to the competition is small, because the advantage these wings bring is also small?

Their front wing was flexing since early 2023, but they were sh*t.
This rear wing was first used at Spa, but they had the best car before that.

If anything, there's more proof that McLaren actually has a good package in spite of the flexing wings than the contrary. McLaren is doing their best to get whatever advantage they can, within the rules. And that's where the flexing wings come into play. The front wing is vastly overestimated by everyone. It's just a visible aspect of the car so they picked that to bicker with, ignoring the fact that McLaren had the same wing in Bahrain 2024 and yet the car was suffering massively on low/medium speed corners. The Miami package fixed that and turned it into a strength even though the front wing was not flexing any differently. Yet everyone seems to have concluded that McLaren's performance in low-speed comes entirely from the front wing.

If they get banned, they will undoubtedly lose some pace, but people think it will be another Aston 2023 scenario and I can speak with very high confidence that it won't be nearly as dramatic. Aston had problems with correlation. They were relying on their initial spec being a very balanced car to get great results while competitors were struggling (except RedBull). Everything they have brought to their car hasn't worked as intended and they also flopped the development of the 2024 car. Completely unrelated and opposite to McLaren.

Why do you think it's worrying though? Best case scenario we get an even tighter fight at the front. As for Ferrari, they are on the backs of two most (historically) favorable tracks for them in recent years. It's no guarantee they maintain this level of competitiveness until the end of the season, especially if we hit low temps on future races, something with which Ferrari has struggled a lot this season. Nevertheless, Ferrari has had one of the most balanced cars since the season started. They were ahead of McLaren before Miami, so it's no surprise they're fast now that they fixed some of their problems.

[mclaren111]

As it would be a joke if what McLaren does now indeed has effect on performance, and FIA doesn't do anything on it, well you know just because it would ruin the business opportunity to cash in on a tight championship.

If it's effective and within the rules then that falls in line with pretty much what every other team in the sport is doing. That's the whole point of the sport. Come up with clever ideas within the rules that give you an edge over the competition.

If the FIA has no problem with it, then everyone else would have to invest resources to get the benefits the same way McLaren did.

Of course I meant if it's within the rules. My point was, if all of this comes as that, FIA can do anything to go over it just because it would not want to ruin the already tight championship. This PTSD, Karen conspiracy mumbo jumbo attitude that FIA always pleases Ferrari is annoying.

Yes... It has changed from Ferrari to Merc...

[bananapeel23]

This is a strange take. It's worrying if McLaren has super wings because if that is the case, the rest of the car is slow and once others copy them they will be slow again? Sure - it might be. But what is the alternative, not make them and stay slow all the time?

No it's a stroke of genius from McLaren. My only reservation is that the wings might be masking some lack of performance in the "car concept", since the wings are pretty much just a drag-reduction device that works irrespective of "car concept".

If McLaren is close to the performance ceiling of their car concept, regaining those few tenths from the wings will be very difficult, while the other teams have cheap performance on the table from flexiwings. This won't matter in 2024, but might end up being very important in 2025 if they carry over their car concepts as expected.

[mwillems]

The attention the Mclaren receives doesn't bother me. It's typical that at the front you get a lot of scrutiny.

The front wing flex has been and gone and I expect the same of the rear wing flex. But even if there's a TD, I don't think it's a game changer. Largely it's something produced by news outlets to get fans excited. Not exactly clickbait, but close enough.

McLaren simply made the best of the established rules and regulations. All the talk about "cheating" started once they got close to retaking lead in WCC, no one was complaining before that. Other teams should simply step up or shut up. They definitely need to clean their own doorstep instead of pointing finger at others for their own lack of performance and ingenuity. McLaren also used to do that on occasion.... but only once they admitted their own mistakes, they began their revival, and here, we are, today.

It's normal with a certain subset of fan that just wants to throw around incendiaries if something isn't the way they want it. We have a few on here, and a few recently departed, god rest their digital souls. And because there is that audience of the equivalent to teenage reactionaries, the headline writers are going to write articles that, even made to appear technical, are really designed to make statements to stir the pot.

But I'm glad we're the team getting this sh*t now

Let's wait for the days when Toto starts getting involved, then you'll know sh*t got real! Cos in terms of being a target for every other team and their fans, this hasn't even started yet.

[taperoo2k]

Same old cat and mouse game between the FIA and the teams over the grey areas of the rules. Something is legal until the FIA decides it's illegal.
Not sure why people are getting so worked up over it. It's not as though McLaren are doing anything like Benneton did in
the 90's.

[Emag]

Same old cat and mouse game between the FIA and the teams over the grey areas of the rules. Something is legal until the FIA decides it's illegal.
Not sure why people are getting so worked up over it. It's not as though McLaren are doing anything like Benneton did in
the 90's.

It’s pretty on character for this sport to hate on the team that is winning, especially if that team is not the team you support.

Everybody enjoys the story of the underdog until they start winning a little bit too much. You think Aston would have received love from everyone if they had started winning races and challenging for the championship this year? No, they would have been under scrutiny and something would have popped up at some point to rile up the people against them.

Competitive cars are competitive for multiple reasons. Sometimes the reasons are complicated and in the gray area when it comes to rules.

People will then spin narratives and come up with reasons to make the said team the villain and undeserving of their success (i.e the “spirit of the rules” argument).

It’s all a facade though. Essentially it all boils down to:
I don’t like this team, they’re doing something which dances around the rules, I now hate this team because it’s taking wins away from the team I actually like to win.

This literally has happened every era of the sport and it will continue to be like this.

[Macklaren]

The season keeps on giving for us -- not only are we leading the championship for the first time in a decade, we now also have an F-Duct like innovation for the first time in 15 years, which is being debated by the rest of the paddock
It is clear that the FIA knows about this and has given it the green light. Which means all the other teams will be trying to put it on their car next year (using up wind tunnel time) while we work on the next innovation
"diminishing returns" with development, my ***