2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[CouncilorIrissa]

Formu1a.uno reports that the FW update has been brought forward to Singapore.
https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/it/f ... r_pto=wapp

[dialtone]

Formu1a.uno reports that the FW update has been brought forward to Singapore.
https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/it/f ... r_pto=wapp

Totally aimless team behavior right there.

[CouncilorIrissa]

Formu1a.uno reports that the FW update has been brought forward to Singapore.
https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/it/f ... r_pto=wapp

Totally aimless team behavior right there.

I've never called them aimless.

[Vanja #66]

Formu1a.uno reports that the FW update has been brought forward to Singapore.
https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/it/f ... r_pto=wapp

Totally aimless team behavior right there.

They are truly and utterly lost

[ScuderiaLeo]

Formu1a.uno reports that the FW update has been brought forward to Singapore.
https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/it/f ... r_pto=wapp

What? Formu1a.uno themselves reported that the work on this wing began only a few weeks ago. They made an entire new front wing with new behaviour in 3-4 weeks when their original plan was 2 months?

I'm really shocked. There was nothing suggesting it would come this weekend.

In Monza, Ferrari introduced most of the new features planned for the second part of the season, and so far, no issues have arisen from Maranello related to the functioning of these developments. According to our information, Ferrari has accelerated the development plans once again and will bring the new front wing—initially scheduled for Austin—to Singapore. The new wing is already en route to Marina Bay, ready to be mounted and tested by both Ferrari drivers. This decision was once again driven by Vasseur and Diego Tondi, who, after the 'all-in' at Monza, wanted to bring forward this last important component. A new wing is always an important element, perhaps the most crucial and nerve center of aerodynamics, as it is the first part of the car to impact the airflow, making it vital that it works as the aerodynamicists expect.

[Emag]

FYI, it's exactly what you would expect to happen. It's not like the mini DRS is doing the heavy lifting.

Bigger flap = More downforce = Less speed with DRS closed but more gained when DRS opened
Opposite for smaller flap.

RB, McL and Ferrari flaps are basically the same size though.

viewtopic.php?p=1234625#p1234625

https://i.ibb.co/jgQDggQ/comp-spa-24.jpg

McLaren is pushing the limit and they have the right to do so. Obviously, FIA allowed it and it wasn't allowed before. Why is it allowed now is a question for FIA, since no other team is doing it obviously no team got the memo.

You're ignoring the angle as well as the curvature of the wings by taking the frontal perspective as the measure of load on all of them. Not only that, but you're also not accounting for the slight side shift considering the image is taken from an angle to the right instead of directly in front of them.

Nevertheless, let's ignore that. We were talking about the DRS on/off delta, which is strictly controlled by the flap and not by the entire rear wing. In that aspect you can sort of judge by the flap edges, which are a bit curved on the McLaren and you can get an impression that it would in fact be less effective than both RedBull and Ferrari because it is covering a smaller area of the entire flap.

Even if we ignore that, again, judging by the flap size alone, McLaren had the smallest flap of the top 3 (I was too lazy to do Mercedes, sorry) :



And if you want to ignore that as well, McLaren's rear wing tips are much flatter than RedBull and Ferrari. Even if the flaps were the same size, the top part of the assembly would overall have less drag, meaning better top speed with DRS off.

Look, I understand that what McLaren is doing doesn't sit well with a lot of people, especially since we have had plenty of flex sagas recently and it's difficult to differentiate what exactly makes one legal / illegal based on FIA tests alone. And I agree that this is very cheeky by them and even if it is technically legal, they might outlaw it in the future just because it's exploiting the DRS which is supposed to be really strict in its purpose.

But I disagree on the premise that this is somehow a game changer and that McLaren suddenly has +10kph on everyone without DRS and now nobody has a chance to overtake them if they're in front ...

Baku is a hard track to overtake on. Lando had >1 second on Albon and he could not overtake him on-track. Charles needed a big laptime delta. Not only that, but much better traction than the car in front out of T16. Or if you can't get any of that, you would have had to make your move while the target was struggling with tires (like Oscar overtook Charles).

Of course though, that it does have some benefit, otherwise they wouldn't bother making something like this.

[dialtone]

Formu1a.uno reports that the FW update has been brought forward to Singapore.
https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/it/f ... r_pto=wapp

Totally aimless team behavior right there.

I've never called them aimless.

Sorry, was just a joke, not about you

[Vanja #66]

But I disagree on the premise that this is somehow a game changer and that McLaren suddenly has +10kph on everyone without DRS and now nobody has a chance to overtake them if they're in front ...

At those speeds, it could be up to 5kmh more and judging by top speed data and DRS delta it's definitely at least 3-4kmh. More than enough to be critical for overtaking. Ferrari lost because they stayed 2 laps too long on mediums and because they stayed on typical Hard tyre warm up cycle instead of picking up the pace, but having been overtaken already it didn't help to fight a car that sheds considerably more drag than others on straights

[Emag]

But I disagree on the premise that this is somehow a game changer and that McLaren suddenly has +10kph on everyone without DRS and now nobody has a chance to overtake them if they're in front ...

At those speeds, it could be up to 5kmh more and judging by top speed data and DRS delta it's definitely at least 3-4kmh. More than enough to be critical for overtaking. Ferrari lost because they stayed 2 laps too long on mediums and because they stayed on typical Hard tyre warm up cycle instead of picking up the pace, but having been overtaken already it didn't help to fight a car that sheds considerably more drag than others on straights

Maybe, it could be, doubt we will ever get a number out of McLaren. I respect your opinion more than mine in the matter though.
I wouldn't expect it to be worth up to 5, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it is in the realm of 1-4 depending on what the wind is doing too.

That's just based on the fact that they did indeed bring a low DF package. Even the lower plane, when you account for the curvature, there's less surface area on the wing that's hitting the air. If you look at the cars on track, McLaren's rear wing visually seemed the lesser loaded and its somewhat confirmed by both McLaren, mentioning it after friday that they decided to go with low load, as well as opponent teams (Leclerc saying the same).

Also, if we assume it's worth up to 5 and we remove that from the top speeds in the race, then that brings McLaren ~2-4 kmh down on Ferrari/RedBull whilst running with a lower DF package. Is their efficiency really that atrocious? Again, could be, but I somehow doubt it's that bad.

[Xyz22]

But I disagree on the premise that this is somehow a game changer and that McLaren suddenly has +10kph on everyone without DRS and now nobody has a chance to overtake them if they're in front ...

At those speeds, it could be up to 5kmh more and judging by top speed data and DRS delta it's definitely at least 3-4kmh. More than enough to be critical for overtaking. Ferrari lost because they stayed 2 laps too long on mediums and because they stayed on typical Hard tyre warm up cycle instead of picking up the pace, but having been overtaken already it didn't help to fight a car that sheds considerably more drag than others on straights

Yep 2,3,4 km/h is an important advantage when the cars are so close. It could be the difference between an overtake or staying behind.

Kudos to McLaren that has been able to "exploit" the rules in a very smart way.


In any event, according to Formu1a.uno the new front wing will be available in Singapore already

https://x.com/GiulyDuchessa/status/1836018520611516772

As i said a fully reworked FW could be a significant improvement, providing it works correctly I'm not expecting the SF 24 to compete with the McL in medium/long radius corners, but maybe it could be useful in reducing the understeer in low speed that has been quite the issue for Leclerc this season.

[Emag]

But I disagree on the premise that this is somehow a game changer and that McLaren suddenly has +10kph on everyone without DRS and now nobody has a chance to overtake them if they're in front ...

At those speeds, it could be up to 5kmh more and judging by top speed data and DRS delta it's definitely at least 3-4kmh. More than enough to be critical for overtaking. Ferrari lost because they stayed 2 laps too long on mediums and because they stayed on typical Hard tyre warm up cycle instead of picking up the pace, but having been overtaken already it didn't help to fight a car that sheds considerably more drag than others on straights

Yep 2,3,4 km/h is an important advantage when the cars are so close. It could be the difference between an overtake or staying behind.

Kudos to McLaren that has been able to "exploit" the rules in a very smart way.


In any event, according to Formu1a.uno the new front wing will be available in Singapore already

https://x.com/GiulyDuchessa/status/1836018520611516772

As i said a fully reworked FW could be a significant improvement, providing it works correctly I'm not expecting the SF 24 to compete with the McL in medium/long radius corners, but maybe it could in reducing the understeer in low speed that has been quite the issue for Leclerc this season.

Ferrari has been really impressive with the upgrades this season. Unfortunate that they hit that misstep with the Barcelona floor, but they recovered really quickly and now are pushing even further beyond. One can safely assume they now have a better grasp on what to avoid in this regulation set so any upgrades that come in the future should bring the desired results from the get-go.

[r85]

Formu1a.uno reports that the FW update has been brought forward to Singapore.
https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/it/f ... r_pto=wapp

Totally aimless team behavior right there.

They are truly and utterly lost

Sorry for asking, but why lost?

[dani5549]

Totally aimless team behavior right there.

They are truly and utterly lost

Sorry for asking, but why lost?

It's a sarcastic reply, because after the Barcelona update everyone called Ferrari an ambitionless team with no plan forward

[Vanja #66]

Maybe, it could be, doubt we will ever get a number out of McLaren. I respect your opinion more than mine in the matter though.
I wouldn't expect it to be worth up to 5, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it is in the realm of 1-4 depending on what the wind is doing too.

That's just based on the fact that they did indeed bring a low DF package. Even the lower plane, when you account for the curvature, there's less surface area on the wing that's hitting the air. If you look at the cars on track, McLaren's rear wing visually seemed the lesser loaded and its somewhat confirmed by both McLaren, mentioning it after friday that they decided to go with low load, as well as opponent teams (Leclerc saying the same).

Also, if we assume it's worth up to 5 and we remove that from the top speeds in the race, then that brings McLaren ~2-4 kmh down on Ferrari/RedBull whilst running with a lower DF package. Is their efficiency really that atrocious? Again, could be, but I somehow doubt it's that bad.

If they got eg +3kmh from it, it puts them equal to Ferrari and 1-2kmh down on Red Bull (with new floor that's less loaded in diffuser, so carrying less drag than ever this season) in Baku and typically on every track so far they were just about equal to those two teams or 1-2kmh lower (could also be Merc PU lacking 5-10HP, not just aero).

There's absolutely no way they could have used that wing in Monza with so much success if it didn't shed 3-4kmh on those long straights, even the mighty RB19 had to clip its smallest wing to be able to come close to Ferrari on straights last year

[Emag]

Maybe, it could be, doubt we will ever get a number out of McLaren. I respect your opinion more than mine in the matter though.
I wouldn't expect it to be worth up to 5, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it is in the realm of 1-4 depending on what the wind is doing too.

That's just based on the fact that they did indeed bring a low DF package. Even the lower plane, when you account for the curvature, there's less surface area on the wing that's hitting the air. If you look at the cars on track, McLaren's rear wing visually seemed the lesser loaded and its somewhat confirmed by both McLaren, mentioning it after friday that they decided to go with low load, as well as opponent teams (Leclerc saying the same).

Also, if we assume it's worth up to 5 and we remove that from the top speeds in the race, then that brings McLaren ~2-4 kmh down on Ferrari/RedBull whilst running with a lower DF package. Is their efficiency really that atrocious? Again, could be, but I somehow doubt it's that bad.

If they got eg +3kmh from it, it puts them equal to Ferrari and 1-2kmh down on Red Bull (with new floor that's less loaded in diffuser, so carrying less drag than ever this season) in Baku and typically on every track so far they were just about equal to those two teams or 1-2kmh lower (could also be Merc PU lacking 5-10HP, not just aero).

There's absolutely no way they could have used that wing in Monza with so much success if it didn't shed 3-4kmh on those long straights, even the mighty RB19 had to clip its smallest wing to be able to come close to Ferrari on straights last year

When they brought this wing at Spa it was deemed a bit too low for that track though, but the beam wings are drastically different and they have a huge impact on drag/downforce. I think the wing in itself is not super high downforce, but the overall DF/drag level at the rear is quite variable depending on what beam wing is used.

The beam wing at Monza was a lot less loaded and they had >10 kmh more than Spa just because of the beam wing even though the rear wing was the same. I also don’t know if this is true, but I think someone who checked mentioned that the flex effect was not to the same degree at Monza (again, correct me if I am wrong)

Still, the wing Ferrari brought at Monza had a lot less drag, and they had a thinner front wing as well, so I don’t know if the deficit McLaren had was “normal” or too small when you account for all that.

In my opinion, this rear wing trick was designed to do just enough (or perhaps slightly more) to mitigate the extra drag they have to run with at the front due to their front wing concept.