Ferrari SF-24

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bluechris
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Joined: 26 Jun 2019, 20:28
Location: Athens

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:18
Emag wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:15
mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:12
Pictures of the Ferrari at Singapore are available, some parts are arriving today.

Yeah can't see the new wing in that car. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow.
Yeah I wasn't sure about the FW. Rumours of a FW that is more flexible are inbound but this looks to be the old one, as far as my eyes can tell.
Maybe they didn't alter the design but made to top elements to be able to flex more so then you start with +30 clicks and see how it goes.

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bananapeel23
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Joined: 14 Feb 2023, 22:43
Location: Sweden

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:18
Emag wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:15
mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:12
Pictures of the Ferrari at Singapore are available, some parts are arriving today.

Yeah can't see the new wing in that car. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow.
Yeah I wasn't sure about the FW. Rumours of a FW that is more flexible are inbound but this looks to be the old one, as far as my eyes can tell.
You don't have to add flexible wings to the "upgrade list" (I don't know the real name) if they are the same spec. Weight reductions from improved materials or new fabrication methods don't need to be listed as long as the spec stays the same. Theoretically the same could apply to a front wing, assuming you simply lay the carbon fibre down in a different way to encourage the wings to flex under load, while still being built to a previous spec.

You should be unable to tell visually if this is the case.
Last edited by bananapeel23 on 19 Sep 2024, 13:09, edited 1 time in total.

Emag
Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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bluechris wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:02
mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:18
Emag wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:15


Yeah can't see the new wing in that car. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow.
Yeah I wasn't sure about the FW. Rumours of a FW that is more flexible are inbound but this looks to be the old one, as far as my eyes can tell.
Maybe they didn't alter the design but made to top elements to be able to flex more so then you start with +30 clicks and see how it goes.
It's the same load as the old wing though, there is no benefit to having any flexing if you're not piling up significantly more downforce for the medium-low speed corners.

Like this they will get the same performance as before, just with slightly better drag. Which again, wouldn't even be a huge benefit, because the front wing is already (relatively) low drag.

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bluechris
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Joined: 26 Jun 2019, 20:28
Location: Athens

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Emag wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:08
bluechris wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:02
mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:18


Yeah I wasn't sure about the FW. Rumours of a FW that is more flexible are inbound but this looks to be the old one, as far as my eyes can tell.
Maybe they didn't alter the design but made to top elements to be able to flex more so then you start with +30 clicks and see how it goes.
It's the same load as the old wing though, there is no benefit to having any flexing if you're not piling up significantly more downforce for the medium-low speed corners.

Like this they will get the same performance as before, just with slightly better drag. Which again, wouldn't even be a huge benefit, because the front wing is already (relatively) low drag.
That's why i said you start with more clicks to test it. In monza i think Leclerc asked 3 times +4 clicks so now you go to the limit to test it in fp1 and you reduce if it doesn't work well.

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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bananapeel23 wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:06
mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:18
Emag wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:15


Yeah can't see the new wing in that car. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow.
Yeah I wasn't sure about the FW. Rumours of a FW that is more flexible are inbound but this looks to be the old one, as far as my eyes can tell.
You don't have to add flexible wings to the "upgrade list" (I don't know the real name) if they are the same spec. Weight reductions from improved materials or new fabrication methods don't need to be listed as long as the spec stays the same. Theoretically the same could apply to a front wing, assuming you simply lay the carbon fibre down in a different way to encourage the wings to flex under load, while still being built to a previous spec.

You should be unable to tell visually if this is the case.
It's possible that the only thing that can change is the flex, but since it is a new spec front wing they'd still have to declare it, I believe. Whether moving to a flexible front wing would require any geometric changes to the wing is a separate matter but I would think it does. For instance, the Mclaren endplates have different geometries because one of the main functions of the FW is to stop air hitting the front tyres. Flex can disrupt this process unless it is baked in to the geometry of the flexible design. Not fixing this could actually increase drag and affect the floor seal with the turbulent air coming off the front wheel.
Last edited by mwillems on 19 Sep 2024, 13:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Emag
Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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bluechris wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:13
Emag wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:08
bluechris wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:02


Maybe they didn't alter the design but made to top elements to be able to flex more so then you start with +30 clicks and see how it goes.
It's the same load as the old wing though, there is no benefit to having any flexing if you're not piling up significantly more downforce for the medium-low speed corners.

Like this they will get the same performance as before, just with slightly better drag. Which again, wouldn't even be a huge benefit, because the front wing is already (relatively) low drag.
That's why i said you start with more clicks to test it. In monza i think Leclerc asked 3 times +4 clicks so now you go to the limit to test it in fp1 and you reduce if it doesn't work well.
There is a limit to how much adjustability the flaps have. At some point you have to design a new wing if you want more downforce because you can't just keep clicking the flaps up or you'll exceed the angle of attack threshold the wing can work at.

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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My understanding of the movement is that the main plane (red one in this wing) is subject to torsional elasticity.

Meaning,, if the side view is taken, then that main support is rotating and not dropping at the end of which dimension is checked by routine (for that drop against static load test) to facilitate the AoA shift of topmost two flap.

This has the effect of "rolling" back the upper two flaps, while still maintaining their proximity to the main support plane structure. Rigidly fixed,, in rules terms.

The innermost end of top two flaps is allowed to slide in relative position against the two stubby elements that are mounted to nose box. There's no flap adjustment mechanism to restrain the two top flaps at this point ( all being mounted out at extremity of wing) but the two flaps will slide at that point when adjustment takes place. It maybe this "feature" that excludes it ftom breaching rules as there has to be movement factors at that point in allowing trim to be enacted.

If there's change in layup of main spar, then that won't be visible to us as observers, until we see loaded support at higher running speeds.

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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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I don't think it would be very wise to use your very limited amount of new front wings during pit stop practice. Even then if it came down to only being structural changes to the materials to allow more flex, that is something you probably won't see on an upgrade list.

Emag
Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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This (2nd image) looks different, but I am not sure actually. On a second look I am struggling to see if it is indeed new or they are just back to a more loaded wing after having 2 back to back low-drag races.

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bananapeel23
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Joined: 14 Feb 2023, 22:43
Location: Sweden

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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scuderiabrandon wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:29
I don't think it would be very wise to use your very limited amount of new front wings during pit stop practice. Even then if it came down to only being structural changes to the materials to allow more flex, that is something you probably won't see on an upgrade list.
I mean I agree, but also I can't imagine how they could manage to break a front wing during pit stop practice. Realistically the front jack would break well before the wing does.

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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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bananapeel23 wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:57
scuderiabrandon wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 13:29
I don't think it would be very wise to use your very limited amount of new front wings during pit stop practice. Even then if it came down to only being structural changes to the materials to allow more flex, that is something you probably won't see on an upgrade list.
I mean I agree, but also I can't imagine how they could manage to break a front wing during pit stop practice. Realistically the front jack would break well before the wing does.
There is always the possibility of the parts not having arrived yet. Given they have gone straight from Baku to Singapore, they'd still have the old wings with them. The new ones would be shipped from the factory.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Too many possibilities regarding the "new" FW.
It hasn't arrived(but it will soon).
It will only arrive in Texas.
It's in the car but it's changes aren't noticeable with a stationary car(nor need to be included in the FIA documentation).


Emag
Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Yep now that makes sense. Quite a bit more load at the front. Will be interesting to see onboards how much it will flex.

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Properly cranked up on the front, looks good for more front bite. Let's see how it flexes :lol:
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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