2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[SKYnRacing24]

The worse practice session of the year but not surprised at all. The fact this team can't even turn up with a good base setup and have slip angle issues is just ridiculous tbh. Russell will bring it in qualy (6/7th). Hamilton will be out in Q2. Damage limitation weekend again. Not sure about the weather but thats there saving grace for now. Fp3 won't be representive either.

[DRS]

its certainly not looking good, while Russell isnt having as much issues as Lewis he's still 8 tenths off p1 (but he did have a PU problem on his prep lap) and their long runs arent that impressive either.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GX7RZZJXsAA ... name=large

Russell had a terrible outlap, Hamilton is just completely lost. At this rate he will put at least 7 tenths on Lewis come qualifying.

To be honest, while I appreciate Russell driving the car hard. Its not something you can sustain over a grand prix distance. Mercedes have done both their drivers a disservice here. This car isn't good at anything really. It's not even average.

Russell won't be far off come qualifying, just wait and see. When the car is at it's worst Russell shines, Hamilton can't live with him. This is a surprise to me because before 22 and put my money on Lewis shining in a poor car, I'm disappointed it turned out to be wrong.

[Luscion]

Both confirmed what i said, theyre struggling to get the car to work

George Russell:

It was a really challenging Friday for us, really off the pace today, we need to understand why that is. I’m sure we’ll find some answers tonight, we made some big changes from FP1 to FP2 but the car is just not feeling that well connected as it was this time twelve months ago and in recent races so we need to try and get to the bottom of it.

Lewis Hamilton:

“This car… it feels, eish… Very difficult, very challenging day. We tried everything set-up-wise, and nothing seems to work with the set-up. It’s definitely very challenging, we’re really giving it everything, and then you find out you're a second off. I think ultimately just a little bit lost at the moment, not really sure where to put the car.”

“No [changes between FP1 and FP2 didn’t do much]. We tried a lot and achieved the same thing. At the moment we won’t be going into Q3.

[SKYnRacing24]

Russell had a terrible outlap, Hamilton is just completely lost. At this rate he will put at least 7 tenths on Lewis come qualifying.

To be honest, while I appreciate Russell driving the car hard. Its not something you can sustain over a grand prix distance. Mercedes have done both their drivers a disservice here. This car isn't good at anything really. It's not even average.

somewhat related but if what Lewis is saying here is true Merc are still having issues with correlation

Hamilton made some interesting observations about how hard it is to drive the W15 on the limit

"I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and honestly I don’t think it’s necessarily that I’m not being able to access it. It’s just the envelope that we have is much more on a knife-edge. You’ll be in the braking zone, and the rear is out of the window, and then all of a sudden mid-corner, or before the apex, it’s in the window, and then it’s out of the window again."

"And I think it’s the aero characteristics are shifting every week. So from having a bigger wing to smaller beam wing to having the bigger beam wing to having the front wings that are flexing, rear wings that are flexing – it’s such a competitive and really challenging time I think for the aerodynamicists and for simulations, to have them make sure they correlate each weekend."

"I think it’s been probably one of the most challenging times at least for I know for my engineers. It’s been a very, very challenging time to try and get this car in the perfect window."

"When we were in Spa, we had no understanding, but all of a sudden we were quickest. We’re hoping that that comes back to ourselves on stage."

https://formu1a.uno/en/hamilton-expecti ... gapore-gp/

Really appreciate these posts Luscion instead of the usual baiting nonsense from the last page. This is F1Technical for a reason and seing this insight from the champ is exactly why im here. The bolded part is absolutely grim. I know these are meant to be the best drivers in the world but gosh its no wonder Lewis has no confidence with this car.

[erudite450]

To be honest, while I appreciate Russell driving the car hard. Its not something you can sustain over a grand prix distance. Mercedes have done both their drivers a disservice here. This car isn't good at anything really. It's not even average.

somewhat related but if what Lewis is saying here is true Merc are still having issues with correlation

Hamilton made some interesting observations about how hard it is to drive the W15 on the limit

"I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and honestly I don’t think it’s necessarily that I’m not being able to access it. It’s just the envelope that we have is much more on a knife-edge. You’ll be in the braking zone, and the rear is out of the window, and then all of a sudden mid-corner, or before the apex, it’s in the window, and then it’s out of the window again."

"And I think it’s the aero characteristics are shifting every week. So from having a bigger wing to smaller beam wing to having the bigger beam wing to having the front wings that are flexing, rear wings that are flexing – it’s such a competitive and really challenging time I think for the aerodynamicists and for simulations, to have them make sure they correlate each weekend."

"I think it’s been probably one of the most challenging times at least for I know for my engineers. It’s been a very, very challenging time to try and get this car in the perfect window."

"When we were in Spa, we had no understanding, but all of a sudden we were quickest. We’re hoping that that comes back to ourselves on stage."

https://formu1a.uno/en/hamilton-expecti ... gapore-gp/

Really appreciate these posts Luscion instead of the usual baiting nonsense from the last page. This is F1Technical for a reason and seing this insight from the champ is exactly why im here. The bolded part is absolutely grim. I know these are meant to be the best drivers in the world but gosh its no wonder Lewis has no confidence with this car.

I'm not sure why the mods let a lot of nonsense fly. This is a technical forum for goodness sake.

Anyway, let's hope the guys at the sim come up with something overnight otherwise it's going to be grim.

EDIT: Grammar

[Hammerfist]

somewhat related but if what Lewis is saying here is true Merc are still having issues with correlation




https://formu1a.uno/en/hamilton-expecti ... gapore-gp/

Really appreciate these posts Luscion instead of the usual baiting nonsense from the last page. This is F1Technical for a reason and seing this insight from the champ is exactly why im here. The bolded part is absolutely grim. I know these are meant to be the best drivers in the world but gosh its no wonder Lewis has no confidence with this car.

I'm not sure why the mods let a lot of nonsense fly. This is a technical forum for goodness sake.

Anyway, let's hope the guys at the sim come up with something overnight otherwise it's going to be grim.

EDIT: Grammar

It is one guy that is basically making new accounts just to come here and crap on Hamilton. But yeah I’m sure the mods know it and they let it happen. This has been going on for years honestly. Next year he will be in the Ferrari thread. Pathetic but so obvious.

[Luscion]

To be honest, while I appreciate Russell driving the car hard. Its not something you can sustain over a grand prix distance. Mercedes have done both their drivers a disservice here. This car isn't good at anything really. It's not even average.

somewhat related but if what Lewis is saying here is true Merc are still having issues with correlation

Hamilton made some interesting observations about how hard it is to drive the W15 on the limit

"I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and honestly I don’t think it’s necessarily that I’m not being able to access it. It’s just the envelope that we have is much more on a knife-edge. You’ll be in the braking zone, and the rear is out of the window, and then all of a sudden mid-corner, or before the apex, it’s in the window, and then it’s out of the window again."

"And I think it’s the aero characteristics are shifting every week. So from having a bigger wing to smaller beam wing to having the bigger beam wing to having the front wings that are flexing, rear wings that are flexing – it’s such a competitive and really challenging time I think for the aerodynamicists and for simulations, to have them make sure they correlate each weekend."

"I think it’s been probably one of the most challenging times at least for I know for my engineers. It’s been a very, very challenging time to try and get this car in the perfect window."

"When we were in Spa, we had no understanding, but all of a sudden we were quickest. We’re hoping that that comes back to ourselves on stage."

https://formu1a.uno/en/hamilton-expecti ... gapore-gp/

The bolded part is absolutely grim. I know these are meant to be the best drivers in the world but gosh its no wonder Lewis has no confidence with this car.

Yea plus those comments about Spa and now what they're saying in Singapore with both saying they made big changes, the car is still bad, they dont understand and Russell's comments on the car not feeling like it was here 12 months ago.

[Vanja #66]

"I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and honestly I don’t think it’s necessarily that I’m not being able to access it. It’s just the envelope that we have is much more on a knife-edge. You’ll be in the braking zone, and the rear is out of the window, and then all of a sudden mid-corner, or before the apex, it’s in the window, and then it’s out of the window again."

"And I think it’s the aero characteristics are shifting every week. So from having a bigger wing to smaller beam wing to having the bigger beam wing to having the front wings that are flexing, rear wings that are flexing – it’s such a competitive and really challenging time I think for the aerodynamicists and for simulations, to have them make sure they correlate each weekend."

As far as I can tell, we had 3 very different track configurations since Spa when Mercedes hit the nail on the head with balance. They've combined the old floor with new flappy wing in Baku and the race looked pretty much the same as Zandvoort and Monza. Maybe the Spa floor is causing some trouble too, but the biggest issue from my perspective is flappy front wing. It keeps flapping without control and causes all kinds of balance issues over a lap, both on its own variable load levels through a corner and as a consequence making the floor perfrom equally unstable. This can be compensated over a single lap with brave driving and leaning on the tires to the limit everywhere, but this kind of driving is a severe penalty in the race.

[Jdn1327]

"I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and honestly I don’t think it’s necessarily that I’m not being able to access it. It’s just the envelope that we have is much more on a knife-edge. You’ll be in the braking zone, and the rear is out of the window, and then all of a sudden mid-corner, or before the apex, it’s in the window, and then it’s out of the window again."

"And I think it’s the aero characteristics are shifting every week. So from having a bigger wing to smaller beam wing to having the bigger beam wing to having the front wings that are flexing, rear wings that are flexing – it’s such a competitive and really challenging time I think for the aerodynamicists and for simulations, to have them make sure they correlate each weekend."

As far as I can tell, we had 3 very different track configurations since Spa when Mercedes hit the nail on the head with balance. They've combined the old floor with new flappy wing in Baku and the race looked pretty much the same as Zandvoort and Monza. Maybe the Spa floor is causing some trouble too, but the biggest issue from my perspective is flappy front wing. It keeps flapping without control and causes all kinds of balance issues over a lap, both on its own variable load levels through a corner and as a consequence making the floor perfrom equally unstable. This can be compensated over a single lap with brave driving and leaning on the tires to the limit everywhere, but this kind of driving is a severe penalty in the race.

What does Lewis mean when he says the 'rear is in the window'? Is he talking balance or heat in the tyres? Or is it bite from the front end?

[Mosin123]

As far as I can tell, we had 3 very different track configurations since Spa when Mercedes hit the nail on the head with balance. They've combined the old floor with new flappy wing in Baku and the race looked pretty much the same as Zandvoort and Monza. Maybe the Spa floor is causing some trouble too, but the biggest issue from my perspective is flappy front wing. It keeps flapping without control and causes all kinds of balance issues over a lap, both on its own variable load levels through a corner and as a consequence making the floor perfrom equally unstable. This can be compensated over a single lap with brave driving and leaning on the tires to the limit everywhere, but this kind of driving is a severe penalty in the race.

What does Lewis mean when he says the 'rear is in the window'? Is he talking balance or heat in the tyres? Or is it bite from the front end?

I think he means tyre temps

[dialtone]

As far as I can tell, we had 3 very different track configurations since Spa when Mercedes hit the nail on the head with balance. They've combined the old floor with new flappy wing in Baku and the race looked pretty much the same as Zandvoort and Monza. Maybe the Spa floor is causing some trouble too, but the biggest issue from my perspective is flappy front wing. It keeps flapping without control and causes all kinds of balance issues over a lap, both on its own variable load levels through a corner and as a consequence making the floor perfrom equally unstable. This can be compensated over a single lap with brave driving and leaning on the tires to the limit everywhere, but this kind of driving is a severe penalty in the race.

What does Lewis mean when he says the 'rear is in the window'? Is he talking balance or heat in the tyres? Or is it bite from the front end?

Simplifying, All the drivers react to is how hard the steering is, he basically has a rear that gets loose under breaking on entry and steering is too soft, then mid corner suddenly becomes hard as the rears grip while sliding so his steering has to be reined in because it would be too much, and then starts sliding again because there isn’t enough downforce after the apex to finish the corner and the steering crosses the boundary where it gets soft again, and might even need counter steering if slides too much.

Every time the car slides or grips or jumps, the steering input, acceleration and so on has to be adjusted.

[Emag]

Honestly, Mercedes has once again started inhibiting their trademark behavior since the start of this new era back in 2022. It's a cycle they can't seem to break free off.

1 - Have a run of worrying and lackluster performances.
2 - Show small signs of improvement and make public statements that they finally understand what's going on and they have a good feeling going forward.
3 - They follow up with 1-2 promising results that seem to really show that they're on the up.
4 - Out of the blue they go back to having a bad weekend and they go back to step 1.

I was hopeful that they were finally going to stay at the top consistently this year, because it really seemed like they found out what they were doing wrong. But it seems like they're lost once again. The fact that the weekends they performed really well at were outliers in terms of weather (cold weekends), also doesn't fill me with confidence going forward.

If the Austin fix/upgrade doesn't definitely improves whatever has been causing them issues, then you have to start getting worried about the 2025 car's development too.

[Vanja #66]

What does Lewis mean when he says the 'rear is in the window'? Is he talking balance or heat in the tyres? Or is it bite from the front end?

He seemed to be talking in the context of aero performance, so I'd assume this is the case with having the rear in and out the window. This is one of the ways (aero) balance issues are manifested.

[DRS]

Honestly, Mercedes has once again started inhibiting their trademark behavior since the start of this new era back in 2022. It's a cycle they can't seem to break free off.

1 - Have a run of worrying and lackluster performances.
2 - Show small signs of improvement and make public statements that they finally understand what's going on and they have a good feeling going forward.
3 - They follow up with 1-2 promising results that seem to really show that they're on the up.
4 - Out of the blue they go back to having a bad weekend and they go back to step 1.

I was hopeful that they were finally going to stay at the top consistently this year, because it really seemed like they found out what they were doing wrong. But it seems like they're lost once again. The fact that the weekends they performed really well at were outliers in terms of weather (cold weekends), also doesn't fill me with confidence going forward.

If the Austin fix/upgrade doesn't definitely improves whatever has been causing them issues, then you have to start getting worried about the 2025 car's development too.

Yep, it looks like it has been a massive fail with these regulations, they just can't crack it. I'll be following Lewis to Ferrari so I don't care but it looks as they need to concentrate on the new regs. I see they are admitting they want Max for 2026, very strange behaviour if you ask me and a poor way to treat your drivers. We have a young, massive talent entering the team and a driver who has matched the best ever over 3 seasons, it's not a new driver they need, how about worry about giving the drivers a capable car!

[SKYnRacing24]

Yeah that hunt for max to come in 2026 is BS. Russell and Antonelli have come from there development program ffs, they need to worry and invest in making a good car for next year and the new regs than to be chasing Max like some weird boyband groupie. The fact Toto and Bradley have made blatant interviews to entice this doesn't sit right with me.

Totally agree with Emags comments aswell. I thought they would be pressing on by now. The talks of learning from there mistakes. James Alison coming back. The requirements from Lewis to address the cockpit issues etc its been disappointing. Yes there technically a year behind because they changed the philosophy for this year but the fact were having correlation issues and the car has become " undrivable " in many respects must be really hard for everyone involved. Mick will be on the sim tonight doing some setup work but i don't know how they will turn this around for qualy.