2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

Ferrari qualifying out of position really flattered McLaren. This win wouldn't have been anywhere near as dominant if Leclerc had been in P2.

Was McLaren the fastest in the race? Probably.

Was Norris 1 second per lap faster than the competition on the mediums because the McLaren had an extra second of pace over every other team? Almost certainly not.

Just like Ferrari taking a punt on strategy flattered them in Monza.
It's interesting that rivals thought Lando was pushing too hard at the start when he came on the radio and said he was "pace 6". Similarly when Charles put in the fastest lap, Lando said on the risk he couldn't match that only to go 1 sec faster on the next lap and take it back. I think he had plenty of pace in hand

The harder the tyre, the closer the performance. Mediums would still have seen the Mclaren drop the Ferrari. But even on hards, pace was comparable with the Ferrari, but Lando wasn't pushing. Quite the opposite, he'd been told just to bring the car home. Charles was trying to get a move on and had 6 lap fresher hards with a tyre delta and less laps to do in the race than on Lando's car. And yet still, he was only able to go a little faster than Lando.

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

[basti313]

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

I agree with the position against McLaren. There were only 4 comparable laps between Pia and Lec on hards and both in free air. In these laps Pia was 1sec faster in sum. The Ferrari was slower on both tires.
The big question still is Pia vs. Max, but I think without the Mercs he could have been behind Max for the first stop and get the undercut.

[CjC]

Very good article by Marc Hughes:
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... periority/

There was a moment, four-five laps into the race, where up and down the pitwall there was general surprise that he was pushing as hard as he was, almost two seconds ahead of Max Verstappen by the end of the fifth lap.

Surely he was pressing the medium tyre too hard for the optimum strategy? Except that he wasn’t pushing. He was at this point just waiting for his tyres to come fully up to temperature. Even doing this he was pulling away from the Red Bull at 0.5s per lap. Which in turn was well clear of the two Mercedes.

It was lap nine when Norris was told he could begin to push. He duly lapped a full 1s faster than Verstappen. That’s how far ahead the MCL38 was around here, a high-downforce track where it’s all about balance and driveability.

Ferrari qualifying out of position really flattered McLaren. This win wouldn't have been anywhere near as dominant if Leclerc had been in P2.

Was McLaren the fastest in the race? Probably.

Was Norris 1 second per lap faster than the competition on the mediums because the McLaren had an extra second of pace over every other team? Almost certainly not.

Flattered McLaren? No.
Hindered McLaren? Yes.
Mclaren needed Ferrari at the front of the grid to take points off Verstappen.

[organic]

Very good article by Marc Hughes:
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... periority/

There was a moment, four-five laps into the race, where up and down the pitwall there was general surprise that he was pushing as hard as he was, almost two seconds ahead of Max Verstappen by the end of the fifth lap.

Surely he was pressing the medium tyre too hard for the optimum strategy? Except that he wasn’t pushing. He was at this point just waiting for his tyres to come fully up to temperature. Even doing this he was pulling away from the Red Bull at 0.5s per lap. Which in turn was well clear of the two Mercedes.

It was lap nine when Norris was told he could begin to push. He duly lapped a full 1s faster than Verstappen. That’s how far ahead the MCL38 was around here, a high-downforce track where it’s all about balance and driveability.

Ferrari qualifying out of position really flattered McLaren. This win wouldn't have been anywhere near as dominant if Leclerc had been in P2.

Was McLaren the fastest in the race? Probably.

Was Norris 1 second per lap faster than the competition on the mediums because the McLaren had an extra second of pace over every other team? Almost certainly not.

I think Leclerc would have been faster than Verstappen over the full race but it probably would have been just a few tenths on average. I don't see how anyone would have been even within 0.5 second of Norris in the McLaren.

On average Lec was faster than Norris and Verstappen on the hards (by about two hundredths) and he was always bottled up behind others on the meds. The main difference between ver and nor in Singapore was created on medium tyres which we didn't get a good look at on the Ferrari. But in all likelihood they would have been closer to McLaren than red bull were.

I say that mostly because Red bull were just horrendous on the med tyre. almost worst in field dropoff . Almost 100% chance that Ferrari would've been a great deal better on the med and not much worse than they were on the hard. Not to say Ferrari would've won but it would've been far closer

That said there's always ifs buts and maybes. Reality is the last 3 high downforce circuits McLaren have dominated with over 20s gap each time

[DoctorRadio]

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

I agree with the position against McLaren. There were only 4 comparable laps between Pia and Lec on hards and both in free air. In these laps Pia was 1sec faster in sum. The Ferrari was slower on both tires.
The big question still is Pia vs. Max, but I think without the Mercs he could have been behind Max for the first stop and get the undercut.

Out of curiosity, which are these 4 laps on hards where Piastri would be faster than Leclerc?
Unless you are taking those where Leclerc was battling Alonso and the two Mercedes.

[DoctorRadio]

Ferrari qualifying out of position really flattered McLaren. This win wouldn't have been anywhere near as dominant if Leclerc had been in P2.

Was McLaren the fastest in the race? Probably.

Was Norris 1 second per lap faster than the competition on the mediums because the McLaren had an extra second of pace over every other team? Almost certainly not.

Just like Ferrari taking a punt on strategy flattered them in Monza.
It's interesting that rivals thought Lando was pushing too hard at the start when he came on the radio and said he was "pace 6". Similarly when Charles put in the fastest lap, Lando said on the risk he couldn't match that only to go 1 sec faster on the next lap and take it back. I think he had plenty of pace in hand

The harder the tyre, the closer the performance. Mediums would still have seen the Mclaren drop the Ferrari. But even on hards, pace was comparable with the Ferrari, but Lando wasn't pushing. Quite the opposite, he'd been told just to bring the car home. Charles was trying to get a move on and had 6 lap fresher hards with a tyre delta and less laps to do in the race than on Lando's car. And yet still, he was only able to go a little faster than Lando.

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

I take this post from yooogurt in the Ferrari thread.

———

free air pace
Charles Lando
40 +0.29 1:37:194
41 1:36:166 +0.4
42 +0.86 1:36:404
43 1:35:849 +0.76
44 1:35:639 +0.64
45 1:35:716 +1.21
46 1:35:371 +0.58
47 1:35:758 +0.81
48 +0.87 1:34:925
49 +0.19 1:36:060
50 +1.22 1:36:311
51 1:36:424 +0.18
52 1:36:020 +0.17
53 1:36:099 +0.34
54 1:36:454 +0.3
55 1:36:560 +0.23
56 1:36:497 +0.7
57 1:36:802 +2.05
58 1:37:510 +0.22
59 +1.27 1:36:948
60 +1.53 1:36:631
61 +1.51 1:36:820
62 +0.8 1:37:922

48-50 and 59-62 - fighting mercs.
Lando ofk did not attack to the maximum, but clearly not a second slower than he could drive.
It's obvious to me that we should have fought for the win, and the expectations of the drivers are not random, but unfortunately we failed in Q3.

——

Is Lando a little slower?
He is actually a lot slower, taking into account only the laps of Leclerc in free air.
Lando’s tyres were older, but Leclerc had to battle cars so basically taking life out of the tyres; Lando himself said in the press conference that he pushed flat out almost in the whole race.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that Mclaren would drop Ferrari on Medium tyres?
I don’t see any evidence in any data, as we don’t have any.

[basti313]

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

I agree with the position against McLaren. There were only 4 comparable laps between Pia and Lec on hards and both in free air. In these laps Pia was 1sec faster in sum. The Ferrari was slower on both tires.
The big question still is Pia vs. Max, but I think without the Mercs he could have been behind Max for the first stop and get the undercut.

Out of curiosity, which are these 4 laps on hards where Piastri would be faster than Leclerc?
Unless you are taking those where Leclerc was battling Alonso and the two Mercedes.

Sorry, I closed the lap charts, but this was right after both had stopped. I think Lec cleared Alo and if I remember correctly Pia cleared Ham...there were some laps where both had free air after the first pass after the stop, so well comparable as both still had a target in front.

[DoctorRadio]

I agree with the position against McLaren. There were only 4 comparable laps between Pia and Lec on hards and both in free air. In these laps Pia was 1sec faster in sum. The Ferrari was slower on both tires.
The big question still is Pia vs. Max, but I think without the Mercs he could have been behind Max for the first stop and get the undercut.

Out of curiosity, which are these 4 laps on hards where Piastri would be faster than Leclerc?
Unless you are taking those where Leclerc was battling Alonso and the two Mercedes.

Sorry, I closed the lap charts, but this was right after both had stopped. I think Lec cleared Alo and if I remember correctly Pia cleared Ham...there were some laps where both had free air after the first pass after the stop, so well comparable as both still had a target in front.

The history chart is here

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... rt_v01.pdf

It’s virtually impossible to compare the two as they are always passing cars (Piastri the two Mercedes and Leclerc Alonso and Hamilton); the only somewhat possible comparison is lap 46 of Leclerc (1.35.371) and lap 48 of Piastri (1.35.745).
In the rest of the laps, they are slow either for dirty air or for the overtake they just completed or because Piastri settled for third place.

[mwillems]

Just like Ferrari taking a punt on strategy flattered them in Monza.
It's interesting that rivals thought Lando was pushing too hard at the start when he came on the radio and said he was "pace 6". Similarly when Charles put in the fastest lap, Lando said on the risk he couldn't match that only to go 1 sec faster on the next lap and take it back. I think he had plenty of pace in hand

The harder the tyre, the closer the performance. Mediums would still have seen the Mclaren drop the Ferrari. But even on hards, pace was comparable with the Ferrari, but Lando wasn't pushing. Quite the opposite, he'd been told just to bring the car home. Charles was trying to get a move on and had 6 lap fresher hards with a tyre delta and less laps to do in the race than on Lando's car. And yet still, he was only able to go a little faster than Lando.

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

I take this post from yooogurt in the Ferrari thread.

———

free air pace
Charles Lando
40 +0.29 1:37:194
41 1:36:166 +0.4
42 +0.86 1:36:404
43 1:35:849 +0.76
44 1:35:639 +0.64
45 1:35:716 +1.21
46 1:35:371 +0.58
47 1:35:758 +0.81
48 +0.87 1:34:925
49 +0.19 1:36:060
50 +1.22 1:36:311
51 1:36:424 +0.18
52 1:36:020 +0.17
53 1:36:099 +0.34
54 1:36:454 +0.3
55 1:36:560 +0.23
56 1:36:497 +0.7
57 1:36:802 +2.05
58 1:37:510 +0.22
59 +1.27 1:36:948
60 +1.53 1:36:631
61 +1.51 1:36:820
62 +0.8 1:37:922

48-50 and 59-62 - fighting mercs.
Lando ofk did not attack to the maximum, but clearly not a second slower than he could drive.
It's obvious to me that we should have fought for the win, and the expectations of the drivers are not random, but unfortunately we failed in Q3.

——

Is Lando a little slower?
He is actually a lot slower, taking into account only the laps of Leclerc in free air.
Lando’s tyres were older, but Leclerc had to battle cars so basically taking life out of the tyres; Lando himself said in the press conference that he pushed flat out almost in the whole race.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that Mclaren would drop Ferrari on Medium tyres?
I don’t see any evidence in any data, as we don’t have any.

Right. But if you average those gaps then the difference is 5 hundredths of a second per lap in Charles favour during that period. Half a tenth. A little faster, but actually Charles was slower than I realised. I did a snapshot of some racefans data. Despite ample opportunity, including 5 laps on Mediums, Charles was not able to demonstrate in any way that he could make any meaningful inroads on the Mclaren that was not pushing for half of the duration of the hard stint, whereas Charles was clearly trying to get 4th. The Ferrari struggled to get past a slower car on Mediums. if there was any real pace on that car using that compound, he wouldn't have been stuck behind Alonso for the majority of the first stint and if he was saving tyres behind Alonso then he'd have been able to push on when Alonso pitted. Reality is, he was just not that fast on mediums. For reference, Alonso was between 2 and 3 seconds per lap slower than Charles on Hards.

[CjC]

Just like Ferrari taking a punt on strategy flattered them in Monza.
It's interesting that rivals thought Lando was pushing too hard at the start when he came on the radio and said he was "pace 6". Similarly when Charles put in the fastest lap, Lando said on the risk he couldn't match that only to go 1 sec faster on the next lap and take it back. I think he had plenty of pace in hand

The harder the tyre, the closer the performance. Mediums would still have seen the Mclaren drop the Ferrari. But even on hards, pace was comparable with the Ferrari, but Lando wasn't pushing. Quite the opposite, he'd been told just to bring the car home. Charles was trying to get a move on and had 6 lap fresher hards with a tyre delta and less laps to do in the race than on Lando's car. And yet still, he was only able to go a little faster than Lando.

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

I take this post from yooogurt in the Ferrari thread.

———

free air pace
Charles Lando
40 +0.29 1:37:194
41 1:36:166 +0.4
42 +0.86 1:36:404
43 1:35:849 +0.76
44 1:35:639 +0.64
45 1:35:716 +1.21
46 1:35:371 +0.58
47 1:35:758 +0.81
48 +0.87 1:34:925
49 +0.19 1:36:060
50 +1.22 1:36:311
51 1:36:424 +0.18
52 1:36:020 +0.17
53 1:36:099 +0.34
54 1:36:454 +0.3
55 1:36:560 +0.23
56 1:36:497 +0.7
57 1:36:802 +2.05
58 1:37:510 +0.22
59 +1.27 1:36:948
60 +1.53 1:36:631
61 +1.51 1:36:820
62 +0.8 1:37:922

48-50 and 59-62 - fighting mercs.
Lando ofk did not attack to the maximum, but clearly not a second slower than he could drive.
It's obvious to me that we should have fought for the win, and the expectations of the drivers are not random, but unfortunately we failed in Q3.

——

Is Lando a little slower?
He is actually a lot slower, taking into account only the laps of Leclerc in free air.
Lando’s tyres were older, but Leclerc had to battle cars so basically taking life out of the tyres; Lando himself said in the press conference that he pushed flat out almost in the whole race.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that Mclaren would drop Ferrari on Medium tyres?
I don’t see any evidence in any data, as we don’t have any.

Medium
Lap 29 Lando 1:37.5
Oscar 1:37.7
Leclerc overtakes Hulkenberg

Lap 30 Lando brushes the wall
Oscar 1:37.9
Leclerc 1:38.3 for a PB

Lap 35 Lando on the hards now
Oscar 1:38.3
Leclerc 1:39.2

[DoctorRadio]

The harder the tyre, the closer the performance. Mediums would still have seen the Mclaren drop the Ferrari. But even on hards, pace was comparable with the Ferrari, but Lando wasn't pushing. Quite the opposite, he'd been told just to bring the car home. Charles was trying to get a move on and had 6 lap fresher hards with a tyre delta and less laps to do in the race than on Lando's car. And yet still, he was only able to go a little faster than Lando.

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

I take this post from yooogurt in the Ferrari thread.

———

free air pace
Charles Lando
40 +0.29 1:37:194
41 1:36:166 +0.4
42 +0.86 1:36:404
43 1:35:849 +0.76
44 1:35:639 +0.64
45 1:35:716 +1.21
46 1:35:371 +0.58
47 1:35:758 +0.81
48 +0.87 1:34:925
49 +0.19 1:36:060
50 +1.22 1:36:311
51 1:36:424 +0.18
52 1:36:020 +0.17
53 1:36:099 +0.34
54 1:36:454 +0.3
55 1:36:560 +0.23
56 1:36:497 +0.7
57 1:36:802 +2.05
58 1:37:510 +0.22
59 +1.27 1:36:948
60 +1.53 1:36:631
61 +1.51 1:36:820
62 +0.8 1:37:922

48-50 and 59-62 - fighting mercs.
Lando ofk did not attack to the maximum, but clearly not a second slower than he could drive.
It's obvious to me that we should have fought for the win, and the expectations of the drivers are not random, but unfortunately we failed in Q3.

——

Is Lando a little slower?
He is actually a lot slower, taking into account only the laps of Leclerc in free air.
Lando’s tyres were older, but Leclerc had to battle cars so basically taking life out of the tyres; Lando himself said in the press conference that he pushed flat out almost in the whole race.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that Mclaren would drop Ferrari on Medium tyres?
I don’t see any evidence in any data, as we don’t have any.

Right. But if you average those gaps then the difference is 5 hundredths of a second per lap in Charles favour during that period. Half a tenth. A little faster, but actually Charles was slower than I realised. I did a snapshot of some racefans data. Despite ample opportunity, including 5 laps on Mediums, Charles was not able to demonstrate in any way that he could make any meaningful inroads on the Mclaren that was not pushing for half of the duration of the hard stint, whereas Charles was clearly trying to get 4th. The Ferrari struggled to get past a slower car on Mediums. if there was any real pace on that car using that compound, he wouldn't have been stuck behind Alonso for the majority of the first stint and if he was saving tyres behind Alonso then he'd have been able to push on when Alonso pitted. Reality is, he was just not that fast on mediums. For reference, Alonso was between 2 and 3 seconds per lap slower than Charles on Hards.

https://i.ibb.co/pfVdzKK/Charles-Pace.jpg

You average the gaps, but that’s taking into account the time Leclerc lost with Alonso and the two Mercedes in second stint, right?
If so, it’s quite an unfair comparison.

Leclerc was stuck in a DRS train on mediums led by the Haas; good luck in passing cars at Singapore in a DRS train.
In fact, as soon Hulkenberg dropped Alonso, Leclerc immediately passed both.
He stayed in their dirty air, a few tenths behind Alonso, the whole first stint, that can’t have helped the tyres, he most probably cooked them.
On this, I don’t understand why he didn’t get a gap of 2-3s behind Alonso, as it was obvious from the outside that he wasn’t going to pass him DRSed by Hulk.
But maybe in the cockpit he had other feelings.

[DoctorRadio]

The harder the tyre, the closer the performance. Mediums would still have seen the Mclaren drop the Ferrari. But even on hards, pace was comparable with the Ferrari, but Lando wasn't pushing. Quite the opposite, he'd been told just to bring the car home. Charles was trying to get a move on and had 6 lap fresher hards with a tyre delta and less laps to do in the race than on Lando's car. And yet still, he was only able to go a little faster than Lando.

Ferrari was indeed out of position at the start of the race, but was probably around the right position come the end.

I take this post from yooogurt in the Ferrari thread.

———

free air pace
Charles Lando
40 +0.29 1:37:194
41 1:36:166 +0.4
42 +0.86 1:36:404
43 1:35:849 +0.76
44 1:35:639 +0.64
45 1:35:716 +1.21
46 1:35:371 +0.58
47 1:35:758 +0.81
48 +0.87 1:34:925
49 +0.19 1:36:060
50 +1.22 1:36:311
51 1:36:424 +0.18
52 1:36:020 +0.17
53 1:36:099 +0.34
54 1:36:454 +0.3
55 1:36:560 +0.23
56 1:36:497 +0.7
57 1:36:802 +2.05
58 1:37:510 +0.22
59 +1.27 1:36:948
60 +1.53 1:36:631
61 +1.51 1:36:820
62 +0.8 1:37:922

48-50 and 59-62 - fighting mercs.
Lando ofk did not attack to the maximum, but clearly not a second slower than he could drive.
It's obvious to me that we should have fought for the win, and the expectations of the drivers are not random, but unfortunately we failed in Q3.

——

Is Lando a little slower?
He is actually a lot slower, taking into account only the laps of Leclerc in free air.
Lando’s tyres were older, but Leclerc had to battle cars so basically taking life out of the tyres; Lando himself said in the press conference that he pushed flat out almost in the whole race.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that Mclaren would drop Ferrari on Medium tyres?
I don’t see any evidence in any data, as we don’t have any.

Medium
Lap 29 Lando 1:37.5
Oscar 1:37.7
Leclerc overtakes Hulkenberg

Lap 30 Lando brushes the wall
Oscar 1:37.9
Leclerc 1:38.3 for a PB

Lap 35 Lando on the hards now
Oscar 1:38.3
Leclerc 1:39.2

Flawed comparison.

Leclerc cooked his Mediums trying to pass cars in a DRS train, while Piastri managed his tyres just waiting the Mercedes to pit and pushing only after that.

[CjC]

You asked- I provided.
It’s a bit of a flawed conversation as a whole really trying to compare a driver coming through the field towards a driver dominating the field.

Fact of the matter is Verstappen and Lando produced laps within their absolute ultimate pace in Q3 to score a front row between them, what happened to Leclerc in P9?

[mwillems]

Right. But if you average those gaps then the difference is 5 hundredths of a second per lap in Charles favour during that period. Half a tenth. A little faster, but actually Charles was slower than I realised. I did a snapshot of some racefans data. Despite ample opportunity, including 5 laps on Mediums, Charles was not able to demonstrate in any way that he could make any meaningful inroads on the Mclaren that was not pushing for half of the duration of the hard stint, whereas Charles was clearly trying to get 4th. The Ferrari struggled to get past a slower car on Mediums. if there was any real pace on that car using that compound, he wouldn't have been stuck behind Alonso for the majority of the first stint and if he was saving tyres behind Alonso then he'd have been able to push on when Alonso pitted. Reality is, he was just not that fast on mediums. For reference, Alonso was between 2 and 3 seconds per lap slower than Charles on Hards.

https://i.ibb.co/pfVdzKK/Charles-Pace.jpg

You average the gaps, but that’s taking into account the time Leclerc lost with Alonso and the two Mercedes in second stint, right?
If so, it’s quite an unfair comparison.

Leclerc was stuck in a DRS train on mediums led by the Haas; good luck in passing cars at Singapore in a DRS train.
In fact, as soon Hulkenberg dropped Alonso, Leclerc immediately passed both.
He stayed in their dirty air, a few tenths behind Alonso, the whole first stint, that can’t have helped the tyres, he most probably cooked them.
On this, I don’t understand why he didn’t get a gap of 2-3s behind Alonso, as it was obvious from the outside that he wasn’t going to pass him DRSed by Hulk.
But maybe in the cockpit he had other feelings.

It was an average of the hard only, if I include mediums then it would be unfair, as you say.

But you can see that even on hards in clean air with a 6 lap delta, he's barely faster, despite pushing for position when Lando is bringing it home, that's why that visualisation is quite useful.

There was plenty of free air to gauge Charles pace, and Alonsos delta to charles on hards provides useful context.

[DoctorRadio]

You asked- I provided.
It’s a bit of a flawed conversation as a whole really trying to compare a driver coming through the field towards a driver dominating the field.

Fact of the matter is Verstappen and Lando produced laps within their absolute ultimate pace in Q3 to score a front row between them, what happened to Leclerc in P9?

I never asked you to intervene in this flawed conversation