2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Jurgen von Diaz]

When Jos Verstappen said the team will fall apart if Horner stays, at that point Red Bull was dominant. Look where Red Bull is now. Crazy Jos is prophet!

The person making false acusations public with "anonymous" leak? Some prophet

"My dad is not a liar" — Max Verstappen

[Cassius]

That is just correlation and I am not sure it can all be contributed to personnel. It is just natural and the effect of being outdeveloped with limited options to correct in a wind tunnel / cfd constraint team.

They still lead the WDC, they went into a wrong development direction and are correcting it as good as the budget cap allows. If they don't close the gap to McL next year and start as 3rd or 4rd team, then I would agree with you.

It doesn't matter what the reason is or whether a single person or regulation is to blame. That is just noise. The simple fact is that the "dream team" at RBR is no more. Newey, Marshall, Courtenay, Wheatley, and many more. This is Red Bull's Mt. Rushmore. This can be compared with the departure of key figures during the Schumacher-Ferrari era and the Mercedes era from 2014-2021. Trying to find someone to blame doesn't matter. What matters (for Max, for example), is that when these kinds of paradigm shifts take place within a team, nothing good comes from it. History has shown this many times in Formula. Red Bull is not immune. The figures that remain will have to prove themselves all over again.

The strength of top teams has always been not just the key personnel, but also the depth of talent, and the processes in place. I am sure the sporting and strategic directorship will relatively easily be filled by GP and likely Hannah resp. It would be a mistake if RB isn't prepared for team leads leaving to other teams in this budget cap era. They must have the right goverance in place to manage these transitions.

I agree Newey departing will not help and might make it more difficult to recruit young talent, but all the main full time engineers are still where they are.

Not sure history is the best predictor. I think a new history is being written in this budget cap era. Teams are closer than ever. All top teams have lost key personnel, including RB in the past (think Fallows). Driver becomes maybe even more important in eras of converging teams. Hence Toto and Aston publicly trying to steer Max away from RB.

[ispano6]

They should have sacked Horner when the harassment scandal came to light. After that, he made statements that were unflattering towards Newey. Then Horner fired shots at Marko about his text messages being leaked. Great work environment, by the way. Then Newey left, along with a couple of other key staff members. Now, Red Bull is falling apart. Can't figure out who to blame for it other than Horner?

Except that we will likely never know if the defamation of Horner was orchestrated. It appeared to be a concerted effort of a few actors in the media and within RedBull, but also possibly from other teams such as Merc and McLaren to destablize the competition. Truth is weirder than fiction.

[mendis]

When Jos Verstappen said the team will fall apart if Horner stays, at that point Red Bull was dominant. Look where Red Bull is now. Crazy Jos is prophet!

The person making false acusations public with "anonymous" leak? Some prophet

"My dad is not a liar" — Max Verstappen

Every son would like to believe that.

[Vanja #66]

"My dad is not a liar" — Max Verstappen

Anonymous tipster turned out to be one, even when he seems to have payed for massive legal expenses of the complainant

[Wouter]

"My dad is not a liar" — Max Verstappen

.
Anonymous tipster turned out to be one, even when he seems to have payed for massive legal expenses of the complainant

.
First you claim that Jos made the texts public. Then you can probably tell us how he got them if you are so sure. I am curious.

And now you claim that he paid the complainant's costs?!
How did you get that information?

[pantherxxx]

Austin upgrades will work. Red Bull will win all remaining 6 races. Mark my words.

[AR3-GP]

tThe team started the weekend with a very soft mechanical set-up on the RB20 and a medium downforce rear wing on Verstappen’s car, following the same path undertaken by Mclaren. The goal was to make the car very good on kerbs and bumps to maximise the mechanical grip.

The team quickly faced reality in FP2: the RB20 has completely different set-up requirements compared to the MCL38, and as a consequence, the car was not only slow but also underivable. Since the beginning of the season, Red Bull’s car has needed a very stiff mechanical set-up to stabilise the aerodynamic platform and make it work at its best.

For this reason, after Friday’s horrible performance, the team decided to take the opposite set-up choice for the rest of the weekend: knowing that the RB20’s strength was more related to aerodynamic performance than mechanical one, they decided to maximise the aerodynamic grip at the expense of the mechanics. To do so, they stiffened the suspension system and adopted the maximum downforce rear wing already seen in Monaco and Zandvoort.

As a consequence, the RB20 became a much more stable car, but it couldn’t attack kerbs the way McLaren and Ferrarid did.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/303247/f ... apore.html

The RB20 is not an MCL38.

I think the "problem" with the car is that the concept has been obseleted by a car that could achieve the same performance with fewer compromises. You don't discover this until someone beats you with that car.

[Paa]

Austin upgrades will work. Red Bull will win all remaining 6 races. Mark my words.

Well, then you just jinxed it!
(this is a reverse jinx, please leave it alone!)

[AeroDynamic]

How long can Horner remain? Several high profile red bull people have chose to leave the team within a span of a few months, while they were just beginning to enjoy a dominance cycle. Jos predicted this.

[organic]

How long can Horner remain? Several high profile red bull people have chose to leave the team within a span of a few months, while they were just beginning to enjoy a dominance cycle. Jos predicted this.

He has the backing of the Thai ownership. If they removed him now they'd be admitting defeat against the Austrian side of rb. Wheatley, who was the most obvious replacement, has already left so perhaps that ship has sailed

[Watto]

I think there is also a question of is Horner blame for all this or is it the lost of Dietrich Mateschitz

Under Dietrich the team always at arms length of Red Bull GmbH now its somewhat been bought in under their oversight,and the power struggles as a result. There seems more friction between Horner and Marko than there was before - disagreements over drivers (what to do with Riccardo seems one of them) . For all their faults I tthink the one things Red Bull did under DM was everyone kept on the same page. I am sure behind the scenes he sorted a few out if there were any.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

When Mateschitz was alive, it was about pure racing. They sacked drivers every now and then, even average drivers like Alguersuari, Buemi, and Vergne. Now, they are making money with Pérez, who would have been sacked a long time ago, and gave CPR to the unemployed Ricciardo.

[langedweil]

I've got the feeling that an AMR announcement isn't really far away.
Newey and Honda .. can't even really imagine Ver driving for RB next year.

Red Bull is losing key personnel at the same time that it is losing the WCC and, in the worst-case scenario, the WDC. If this is not meaning of falling apart, I don't know what is. The next big thing might be Max if he is leaving.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

I've got the feeling that an AMR announcement isn't really far away.
Newey and Honda .. can't even really imagine Ver driving for RB next year.

Red Bull is losing key personnel at the same time that it is losing the WCC and, in the worst-case scenario, the WDC. If this is not meaning of falling apart, I don't know what is. The next big thing might be Max if he is leaving.

Next year might be too soon. Alonso is still there with a contract until the end of 2026. And I'm not sure what Verstappen thinks of Lance being on the team. Will Lawrence let Max drive for the championship?