This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Basic: AMR need to fix current car if not they end up with same issue again. The rules are not changing so they must improve the current car.....If they going backwards then it is very difficult to gain those gap with front runners... will take years... however luckily we have reset in 2026... but even I don't have any trust on them as how they are operating now. Two years on the row they are struggling.... even with Newly... will take time. 2026 will hit or flap for AMR.....
Alonso time is running out......
To fix the problem, you have to understand the root cause, it seems AMR does not understand where the problem lies
When Red Bull were penalised for the budget cap breach, someone showed a list of what that meant in real time compared to others, ie, how many hours per week for laymen to understand, and they still had nearly 40 hours access they could use every week for 10 months.
So the team with the least wind tunnel time could still operate in it for 8 hours a day, Monday to Friday if they wanted.
Translate that to Mercedes, who have more hours available, and the issue with upgrades in season becomes clearer. Mercedes are definitely not giving up any of their own time just so Aston Martin can use the tunnel.
I wouldn't be shocked if AM haven't used near their full allocation.
According to James Vowles, their aerodynamics workforce is about 50 people. Only 5 people are working on the 2024 and 2025 cars. Most and all resources are employed for 2026.
Now, seeing how the season has unfolded since the second part of 2023 for Aston and IMHO, Aston is now focusing on 2026 even though it has more resources. And this is the most rational approach. There is no need to focus on 2025 unless they pull off a miracle in the winter.
I understand the frustration now, and it is even more frustrating to see Williams or even Haass not even having a simulator and paying to use an F2 simulator.
Aston had a more than reasonable amount of time to produce a working upgrade. They admit to be lost and had to start again with a new approach. It is all corporate talk, they turned the page for 26.
Unlucky for us, this is the frustrating present, a compromised present but for a better 2026.
You're not allowed to put the 2026 car into the WT until after Jan 1 2025. Plus they're still finalizing the aero regs. What are they working on? Plus what is manufacturing working on?
When Red Bull were penalised for the budget cap breach, someone showed a list of what that meant in real time compared to others, ie, how many hours per week for laymen to understand, and they still had nearly 40 hours access they could use every week for 10 months.
So the team with the least wind tunnel time could still operate in it for 8 hours a day, Monday to Friday if they wanted.
Translate that to Mercedes, who have more hours available, and the issue with upgrades in season becomes clearer. Mercedes are definitely not giving up any of their own time just so Aston Martin can use the tunnel.
I wouldn't be shocked if AM haven't used near their full allocation.
In that video interview with Krack posted in the last couple days. Krack says they split the week with Merc, Merc getting 4 days and AMR getting 3. When they have the WT, they have for around the clock.
Just to be clear those 3 full days don't all count towards WT time. Much of that is consumed to setup the tests.
When Red Bull were penalised for the budget cap breach, someone showed a list of what that meant in real time compared to others, ie, how many hours per week for laymen to understand, and they still had nearly 40 hours access they could use every week for 10 months.
So the team with the least wind tunnel time could still operate in it for 8 hours a day, Monday to Friday if they wanted.
Translate that to Mercedes, who have more hours available, and the issue with upgrades in season becomes clearer. Mercedes are definitely not giving up any of their own time just so Aston Martin can use the tunnel.
I wouldn't be shocked if AM haven't used near their full allocation.
In that video interview with Krack posted in the last couple days. Krack says they split the week with Merc, Merc getting 4 days and AMR getting 3. When they have the WT, they have for around the clock.
Just to be clear those 3 full days don't all count towards WT time. Much of that is consumed to setup the tests.
IIRC, Aston Martin gets Fri-Sunday. So it's already non-optimal from an employee point of view.
When Red Bull were penalised for the budget cap breach, someone showed a list of what that meant in real time compared to others, ie, how many hours per week for laymen to understand, and they still had nearly 40 hours access they could use every week for 10 months.
So the team with the least wind tunnel time could still operate in it for 8 hours a day, Monday to Friday if they wanted.
Translate that to Mercedes, who have more hours available, and the issue with upgrades in season becomes clearer. Mercedes are definitely not giving up any of their own time just so Aston Martin can use the tunnel.
I wouldn't be shocked if AM haven't used near their full allocation.
In that video interview with Krack posted in the last couple days. Krack says they split the week with Merc, Merc getting 4 days and AMR getting 3. When they have the WT, they have for around the clock.
Just to be clear those 3 full days don't all count towards WT time. Much of that is consumed to setup the tests.
Whilst Newey is a game changer, I don't think they should completely rely on him to turn the ship around.
I think trajectory is important from an employee morale perspective. Do you remember the early 2023 when there was a real buzz around Aston and you could tell everyone in the organisation (and fans) were excited about the possibilities of the team? The problem with all these failed upgrades and going backwards is that that optimism and team cohesiveness gets eroded. That's why I think it's very important that Aston doesn't just ignore 2025 and put all their eggs in a 2026 shaped basket. I think they have to be more competitive next year to build that anticipation again.
Last edited by jofs89 on 23 Oct 2024, 11:46, edited 1 time in total.
According to James Vowles, their aerodynamics workforce is about 50 people. Only 5 people are working on the 2024 and 2025 cars. Most and all resources are employed for 2026.
Now, seeing how the season has unfolded since the second part of 2023 for Aston and IMHO, Aston is now focusing on 2026 even though it has more resources. And this is the most rational approach. There is no need to focus on 2025 unless they pull off a miracle in the winter.
I understand the frustration now, and it is even more frustrating to see Williams or even Haass not even having a simulator and paying to use an F2 simulator.
Aston had a more than reasonable amount of time to produce a working upgrade. They admit to be lost and had to start again with a new approach. It is all corporate talk, they turned the page for 26.
Unlucky for us, this is the frustrating present, a compromised present but for a better 2026.
You're not allowed to put the 2026 car into the WT until after Jan 1 2025. Plus they're still finalizing the aero regs. What are they working on? Plus what is manufacturing working on?
I think, James Vowles knows that they can't test in the WT until January 1, 25. But they're not going to wait until January 1 25 to start thinking and working on component shapes, the floor, the spars, the rear, the front wing, etc... they're already working on ideas and then on January 1 they'll start testing. So the ban exist indeed and it its for testing but they can all still start working on how they can meet all the challenges.
I do think for ex. that Honda is already working with Aston and therefore Aston is already allocating resources and human resources for that.
According to James Vowles, their aerodynamics workforce is about 50 people. Only 5 people are working on the 2024 and 2025 cars. Most and all resources are employed for 2026.
Now, seeing how the season has unfolded since the second part of 2023 for Aston and IMHO, Aston is now focusing on 2026 even though it has more resources. And this is the most rational approach. There is no need to focus on 2025 unless they pull off a miracle in the winter.
I understand the frustration now, and it is even more frustrating to see Williams or even Haass not even having a simulator and paying to use an F2 simulator.
Aston had a more than reasonable amount of time to produce a working upgrade. They admit to be lost and had to start again with a new approach. It is all corporate talk, they turned the page for 26.
Unlucky for us, this is the frustrating present, a compromised present but for a better 2026.
You're not allowed to put the 2026 car into the WT until after Jan 1 2025. Plus they're still finalizing the aero regs. What are they working on? Plus what is manufacturing working on?
I think, James Vowles knows that they can't test in the WT until January 1, 25. But they're not going to wait until January 1 25 to start thinking and working on component shapes, the floor, the spars, the rear, the front wing, etc... they're already working on ideas and then on January 1 they'll start testing. So the ban exist indeed and it its for testing but they can all still start working on how they can meet all the challenges.
I do think for ex. that Honda is already working with Aston and therefore Aston is already allocating resources and human resources for that.
but vowels said that 90% of his aero team is working on 2026! sounds like alot.
AMR hired that guy from Alpine couple of years ago to lead the 2026 car...Oh yeah Bob Bell.
Great interview, curious facts about 2023 season, 2025 season and beyond. The GOAT, in his recent F1 podcast he did :
IF they block it for copyright, it is on the F1 YouTube channel
Good interview thanks.
Looks like 2025 will be a painful year according to Alonso, Newey is %100 only working on the 2026 car.
Alonso said the top 4 teams are to far ahead for next year.
Interesting what he said about Monaco 2023, that he didnt want any updates until after Monaco because originally the cars strength was slow speed corners but upgrades canceled it, so he wanted no upgrades, he said that was the weekend of is career where he did the most study and focus of his career, but despite almost getting pole the car wasnt great.
Great interview, curious facts about 2023 season, 2025 season and beyond. The GOAT, in his recent F1 podcast he did :
IF they block it for copyright, it is on the F1 YouTube channel
Good interview thanks.
Looks like 2025 will be a painful year according to Alonso, Newey is %100 only working on the 2026 car.
Alonso said the top 4 teams are to far ahead for next year.
Interesting what he said about Monaco 2023, that he didnt want any updates until after Monaco because originally the cars strength was slow speed corners but upgrades canceled it, so he wanted no upgrades, he said that was the weekend of is career where he did the most study and focus of his career, but despite almost getting pole the car wasnt great.
If Aston Martin is the worst team next year, at least Newey can take full advantage of the extra wind tunnel time in the 2nd half of the season. I am mostly filled with hopium for 2026.
