2024 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 01 - 03

[bananapeel23]

Remember he did all this in what was probably the 3rd or 4th best car as well. I can't recall a single mistake from him all race, while seemingly everyone else went off and got overtaken at least once.

Can we stop this 3rd or 4th best car nonsense?

His car was the easiest to drive sunday, even Perez was driving it fine. Max drove spectacularly well and his car was perfectly fine, even in the redbull thread they recognize that the understeer of the car probably played a role in it being easier to drive.

4th best car even... Mercedes is now better than Red Bull? Come on now...

Given the catastrophic performance of Checo and Verstappens inability to get by Leclerc and Ocon I'd say that Alpine and Ferrari were probably at least on equal footing with Red Bull. Russell was also clearly very fast and got the better of both Norris and Leclerc.

Honestly I'd say anywhere from 1stto 5th is absolutely fair, with 3rd to 4th being about where I'd place it. It was clearly the fastest car in the hands of Verstappen, but I'd say most of that comes down to driver skill rather than the car itself.

[dialtone]

Given the catastrophic performance of Checo and Verstappens inability to get by Leclerc and Ocon I'd say that Alpine and Ferrari were probably at least on equal footing with Red Bull. Russell was also clearly very fast and got the better of both Norris and Leclerc.

Honestly I'd say anywhere from 1stto 5th is absolutely fair, with 3rd to 4th being about where I'd place it. It was clearly the fastest car in the hands of Verstappen, but I'd say most of that comes down to driver skill rather than the car itself.

Let's start with a fact: Max said Leclerc is good in the rain.
Another fact: everyone said Max is better than the rest in the rain, this is not in contention.

Another fact: Leclerc went from losing 1s/lap to Russell to gaining 0.5s at times to Russell at the end of the stint and being the 2nd fastest car on track. Similarly with Norris who was about to pass LEC until he got gapped 3s behind LEC at the end of the stint.

Did Lerclerc learn to drive half way through the laps after the red flag? Or is it possible that maybe the car isn't useless?

RBR is not the 4th best, it's maybe the 3rd but it's a highly track and setup dependent evaluation as you could see in COTA where he gapped Norris and his tires lasted the whole sprint race until they decided to change setup and sunday it didn't work. In Brazil Max was 1st in Q1, qualified 3rd in SQ3, clearly had the pace throughout the weekend, wet or dry. But he's still driving the 4th best car? Worse than Mercedes which randomly spins out of track if you look at it wrong.

[dialtone]

Remember he did all this in what was probably the 3rd or 4th best car as well. I can't recall a single mistake from him all race, while seemingly everyone else went off and got overtaken at least once.

Can we stop this 3rd or 4th best car nonsense?

His car was the easiest to drive sunday, even Perez was driving it fine.

Perez didn't even score points. He wasn't making a bunch of mistakes no, but if Max didn't exist, nobody would think that Red Bull was somehow class of the field looking at Perez's drive. You'd just assume it was some midfield car. Not saying it was truly midfield car, just that Perez was absolutely not some indicator of how supreme the RB inherently was.

Perez is a bad driver who crashed multiple times in the wet with a dominant car in his hands, like Canada last year.

Hamilton and Sainz couldn't keep the car on track in the wet... That Perez kept it on track is in itself a minor breakthrough for him. Colapinto crashed under SC and he supposedly has Checo's seat next year, Stroll went off before anything even started.

I'm not using Perez as an indicator of Max's performance, so you shouldn't use it as a baseline for how good Max is. Perez is not a good driver at least this year.

[Sieper]

I absolutely love it (now) when people are explaining to me how not good Perez is and how good the car is. I used to hate that kind of monotonous grumbling, but now I say keep it coming. It just all means one thing.

[dialtone]

I absolutely love it (now) when people are explaining to me how not good Perez is and how good the car is. I used to hate that kind of monotonous grumbling, but now I say keep it coming. It just all means one thing.

I’ve received warnings about saying Perez is bad well before it became mainstream to say so.

I was in a discussion about how he’s actually good because he was good at Mercedes India, and people reported me. What does this mean?

[SirBastianVettel]

Can we stop this 3rd or 4th best car nonsense?

His car was the easiest to drive sunday, even Perez was driving it fine.

Didn’t Perez finish outside of points?

[Sieper]

I absolutely love it (now) when people are explaining to me how not good Perez is and how good the car is. I used to hate that kind of monotonous grumbling, but now I say keep it coming. It just all means one thing.

I’ve received warnings about saying Perez is bad well before it became mainstream to say so.

I was in a discussion about how he’s actually good because he was good at Mercedes India, and people reported me. What does this mean?

It means you are focusing your energy on the wrong part. It really doesn’t help if you just try to prove the object of your not affection is in fact bad. Much better is to discuss what you do like about F1, drivers, teams etc.

[dialtone]

It means you are focusing your energy on the wrong part. It really doesn’t help if you just try to prove the object of your not affection is in fact bad. Much better is to discuss what you do like about F1, drivers, teams etc.

I guess that's fair but I'm mostly annoyed at the constant upholding of Max outdriving his car while everyone else is instead driving with 2 more cylinders.

I'll retire myself from this thread.

[PlatinumZealot]

Remember he did all this in what was probably the 3rd or 4th best car as well. I can't recall a single mistake from him all race, while seemingly everyone else went off and got overtaken at least once.

Can we stop this 3rd or 4th best car nonsense?

His car was the easiest to drive sunday, even Perez was driving it fine.

Perez didn't even score points. He wasn't making a bunch of mistakes no, but if Max didn't exist, nobody would think that Red Bull was somehow class of the field looking at Perez's drive. You'd just assume it was some midfield car. Not saying it was truly midfield car, just that Perez was absolutely not some indicator of how supreme the RB inherently was.

The RedBull looked good in Perez hands if you look at stability braking etc. He was just clumsy in his manuevers. If decent driver had the RedBull and started alngside Max he might have finished right behind him too.

Not a Legendary drive if you asked me. He didn't look god-like or anything, just keeping the on track and making clean overtakes. If he lapped the entire field then we can talk!!

[AR3-GP]

You guys have to stop worrying about how detractors are coping in the wake of Verstappen's performance on Sunday. The performance was enough torture for a lifetime for them. It takes a lot more than a fast car to execute overtakes and win races in the dry, let alone the wet as we have seen this year. For those still interested in the sport and what makes a champion, F1TV has excellent material. The overtakes, the wet lines, the survival mode, the 17 fastest laps of the race. Max Verstappen was letting us know it's his world and we're all just playing in it.

It took him 1 corner into the race to pay tribute to 2016:



The RB20 has struggled with curb riding all season long, an utterly recalcitrant car in these situations. Yet it was Verstappen, the curb jumper of Juncao:




Late braking is the domain of the Mclaren and the Ferrari but it was Verstappen making lunges from Rio with a championship on the line. He made Hamilton and Piastri look like his teammates.








He forced Leclerc into an error:



Every driver has their element and Sunday was Max Verstappen in his element. Many others wouldn't have won in the same car. We've seen it before and we'll see it again. There were a lot of fans of other teams who have been complimentary to Max after this weekend but it's always amusing to see the coping of the staunchest of detractors.

[Mandrake]

You guys have to stop worrying about how detractors are coping in the wake of Verstappen's performance on Sunday. The performance was enough torture for a lifetime for them. It takes a lot more than a fast car to execute overtakes and win races in the dry, let alone the wet as we have seen this year. For those still interested in the sport and what makes a champion, F1TV has excellent material. The overtakes, the wet lines, the survival mode, the 17 fastest laps of the race. Max Verstappen was letting us know it's his world and we're all just playing in it.

It took him 1 corner into the race to pay tribute to 2016:

https://i.postimg.cc/C5NCC6fp/Lap-1.gif

The RB20 has struggled with curb riding all season long, an utterly recalcitrant car in these situations. Yet it was Verstappen, the curb jumper of Juncao:

https://i.postimg.cc/fW3F15Y2/image.png


Late braking is the domain of the Mclaren and the Ferrari but it was Verstappen making lunges from Rio with a championship on the line. He made Hamilton and Piastri look like his teammates.

https://i.postimg.cc/QM2qj7rw/Man-Down-Hamilton.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/PryK1Nmv/And-another-one-PIA.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/9MyY0fmM/And-Anoth ... as-Gas.gif


He forced Leclerc into an error:
https://i.postimg.cc/TPL989Bn/gif-Brazil.gif


Every driver has their element and Sunday was Max Verstappen in his element. Many others wouldn't have won in the same car. We've seen it before and we'll see it again. There were a lot of fans of other teams who have been complimentary to Max after this weekend but it's always amusing to see the coping of the staunchest of detractors.

I would even add the attempt at Charles where he tried to go around the outside but was wary of Charles going very wide as well.

I wonder though, would he have passed Charles more easily if there wasn't a slipstream train? Or was Charles just "equally" quick in the beginning of the race?

[avantman]

Finally, a post worth reading. Thanks a lot of giving us some mental stimulation.
As for Leclerc and his driving in that episode, I wouldn't say Max forced him into mistake, as Charles was closer to the car ahead than to Max. It was another typical Leclerc' unforced mistake, one of many those little ones, he makes so many in every single wet race, that often comes unnoticed. When Max caught him and the group ahead, he wouldn't have any chance to overtake if Charles made no mistakes. Both overtaking opportunities came as direct consequence of mistakes. Was messing up with the white lines...either under braking or on throttle application.

Short view back in the past. 2016. The two Mercedes occupying the front row, 7 tenths ahead of the fastest Ferrari. Red bull a tenth slower. Next cars occupying the 4th row are the HAAS of Groshean and Hulk's Force India, another 4 and 6 tenths adrift respectively. That's massive for such short race track. The grid incomparably less competitive and more spread apart. Overtaking was easier than it is now for variety of reasons.

This year the field was super close and ultra competitive. Alpine in the hands of Gasly was just 0.1s slower on raw dry pace. Ferrari were at least a tenth faster. So, all 5 fastest cars within 5 tenths effectively on raw dry pace based on SQ on Friday. Within 3 tenths if we discount the fastest Mclaren (compare with 7 tenths advantage of Mercedes in '16). Yes, not quite the same as race pace but relevant for the sake of comparison.

If 2016 was spectacular show by fearless raw talent, 2024 was a true masterclass by motorsport's great conducted on the closest and the most competitive F1 field of cars and drivers of all time. By far more impressive.

[Farnborough]

Max and Charoes race really well together, on many occasion too.

Charles is not getting his head messed up like Lando is by British "press" pressure along with Zac's push to stand up to "bullying" as seen to represent it.

You could use Lando quote about Max "he got what he desreved" and apply that to Brazil race ... for Max he understood fully how to race here.

There's this pervading British led and USA (zac) feeling that they need to correct someone else's behaviour rather than fully considering their own application throughout this year.

Fabulous response to all the pressure a majority are trying to force on MV .

Definitely a masterclass we've witnessed.

[Seanspeed]

Can we stop this 3rd or 4th best car nonsense?

His car was the easiest to drive sunday, even Perez was driving it fine.

Perez didn't even score points. He wasn't making a bunch of mistakes no, but if Max didn't exist, nobody would think that Red Bull was somehow class of the field looking at Perez's drive. You'd just assume it was some midfield car. Not saying it was truly midfield car, just that Perez was absolutely not some indicator of how supreme the RB inherently was.

The RedBull looked good in Perez hands if you look at stability braking etc. He was just clumsy in his manuevers. If decent driver had the RedBull and started alngside Max he might have finished right behind him too.

Not a Legendary drive if you asked me. He didn't look god-like or anything, just keeping the on track and making clean overtakes. If he lapped the entire field then we can talk!!

Have people forgotten Perez isn't actually some pathetic pay driver or whatever?

[Seanspeed]

Can we stop this 3rd or 4th best car nonsense?

His car was the easiest to drive sunday, even Perez was driving it fine.

Perez didn't even score points. He wasn't making a bunch of mistakes no, but if Max didn't exist, nobody would think that Red Bull was somehow class of the field looking at Perez's drive. You'd just assume it was some midfield car. Not saying it was truly midfield car, just that Perez was absolutely not some indicator of how supreme the RB inherently was.

Perez is a bad driver who crashed multiple times in the wet with a dominant car in his hands, like Canada last year.

Hamilton and Sainz couldn't keep the car on track in the wet... That Perez kept it on track is in itself a minor breakthrough for him. Colapinto crashed under SC and he supposedly has Checo's seat next year, Stroll went off before anything even started.

I'm not using Perez as an indicator of Max's performance, so you shouldn't use it as a baseline for how good Max is. Perez is not a good driver at least this year.

The argument about how Verstappen's performance wasn't actually that impressive was being at least partially based on this idea from yourself that Perez did fine, which I responded to. Perez didn't even score points.

Any reasonable person would see that Perez's performance only further highlights how amazing Verstappen was.