Red Bull suspects McLaren and a few other teams of filling water into the tyres

[AR3-GP]

Courtesy of Mercedes

[basti313]

What are they adding to the valve at 0:47?

[AR3-GP]

What I'm curious about in this saga is the lack of comment from Mclaren. Mclaren have offered a public defense to every other allegation levied against them this year (brake cooling holes around Silverstone, mini-DRS). Unless I missed something, they have not made any comment on this subject. One could choose to read into this in a lot of ways...


Also, as a general comment, Mclaren was still struggling with overheating tires at the beginning of the year and then suddenly, they weren't. I have never heard of a team fixing tire overheating issues within a season.

Mercedes hasn't fixed their rear tire heating issues (the car only works in cold weather)
Ferrari spent all of 2023 with tire overheating and required major changes to get things under control for 2024 (and arguably went too far in opposite direction)
Red Bull have struggled with tire overheating all year long.



The last time Max Verstappen made comment publicly about another team doing things they shouldn't was the fuel-gate in 2019...

[chrisc90]

Maybe Red Bull should ask Zak and his team to sign a affidavit stating they never manipulated the pressures inside the tyres with water.

[_cerber1]

What I'm curious about in this saga is the lack of comment from Mclaren. Mclaren have offered a public defense to every other allegation levied against them this year (brake cooling holes around Silverstone, mini-DRS). Unless I missed something, they have not made any comment on this subject. One could choose to read into this in a lot of ways...


Also, as a general comment, Mclaren was still struggling with overheating tires at the beginning of the year and then suddenly, they weren't. I have never heard of a team fixing tire overheating issues within a season.

It's all pretty easy to explain, they brought the B chassis to Miami, which solved a lot of the problems with the tires. During the season, there were also updates that allowed the tires to work better.

[PapayaFan481]

...

Also, as a general comment, Mclaren was still struggling with overheating tires at the beginning of the year and then suddenly, they weren't. I have never heard of a team fixing tire overheating issues within a season.

Mclaren struggled with tyre overheating only until they brought their Miami upgrade package. It is perfectly reasonable to expect such a massive overgrade package to fundamentally change a car's behaviour.

No reason for it to need to resort to conspiracies, but that's just the world we live in these days.

People had come up with perfectly logical, science based explanations for the way McLaren look after their tyres allowing them to be faster towards the end of stints. Then suddenly Red Bull throw the idea out that somehow they're adding water without ever being seen doing so OR Pirelli finding any evidence of it and BAM McLaren are only good on their tyres because they're cheating as far as some fans are concerned.

[AR3-GP]

Mclaren struggled with tyre overheating only until they brought their Miami upgrade package. It is perfectly reasonable to expect such a massive overgrade package to fundamentally change a car's behaviour.

Actually something changed with the Mclaren in China which was before Miami's raft of upgrades. It's possible that they experimented with it then to get a baseline before the aero updates came in. China is notorious for high tire deg and after the safety car, Norris dropped Leclerc like a bad habit.

[Sevach]

Actually something changed with the Mclaren in China which was before Miami's raft of upgrades. It's possible that they experimented with it then to get a baseline before the aero updates came in. China is notorious for high tire deg and after the safety car, Norris dropped Leclerc like a bad habit.

In the 4 races before Shanghai Ferrari had Mclaren easily under control in race pace, then Mclaren beat Ferrari at Shanghai and never looked back.

[stewie325]

So McLaren was dominating with a 30s lead, and a few races later they are 30s behind.

Vegas track conditions favouring the Merc aside, I'm now a lot more inclined to believe there was some water trickery.

But it's difficult to understand if that's the only effect, or their mini-DRS rear wing has also been a huge cost. It would have been used at Vegas..

[PapayaFan481]

So McLaren was dominating with a 30s lead, and a few races later they are 30s behind.

Vegas track conditions favouring the Merc aside, I'm now a lot more inclined to believe there was some water trickery.

But it's difficult to understand if that's the only effect, or their mini-DRS rear wing has also been a huge cost. It would have been used at Vegas..

Please point to where there has been any evidence whatsoever that any team actually did use water in their tyres (except Red Bull who admitted they used to do it). All this finger pointing at McLaren ignores that Mercedes were also accused of doing it.

If people can say that McLaren did chest by adding water, then people can also say that Red Bull cheated by using their adjustable bib. Did either of those things ACTUALLY happen? Probably not. But we live in a post-truth world where conspiracies and accusations carry more weight than more detailed, evidence based analysis.

Also ignores McLaren admitting that they didn't have a suitable wing after the clarification of the load tests meant their Baku wing was no longer legal.

[Vanja #66]

So McLaren was dominating with a 30s lead, and a few races later they are 30s behind.

Vegas track conditions favouring the Merc aside, I'm now a lot more inclined to believe there was some water trickery.

But it's difficult to understand if that's the only effect, or their mini-DRS rear wing has also been a huge cost. It would have been used at Vegas..

It's the illegal mini DRS wing with a double penalty, without the top speed bonus with Spa wing they had to use Monza wing which cost them a lot of downforce in corners + without using Monza wing previously they only relied on FP3 and simulator to get the setup and balance right and as we saw they didn't get it right. Their overall gap in the race was exaggerated because of this.

If they experience overheating issues in Qatar and/or AD, we can discuss the potential influence of water-cooled tyres until Brasil. If they don't get into tyre issues and don't lose pace to others, water-cooling was definitely a nothingburger

[fourmula1]

So this is used to explain mclarens lack of pace but mercs massive leap from absolute trash in brazil to complete domination here is….

[Alexf1]

So this is used to explain mclarens lack of pace but mercs massive leap from absolute trash in brazil to complete domination here is….

Due to the low temperatures as we've seen all year: Canada, Silverstone, Spa, Vegas.

BTW, Russel was doing just fine in the race in Brazil. Only the old man was struggling

[fourmula1]

So this is used to explain mclarens lack of pace but mercs massive leap from absolute trash in brazil to complete domination here is….

Due to the low temperatures as we've seen all year: Canada, Silverstone, Spa, Vegas

Exactly my point.

[basti313]

Please point to where there has been any evidence whatsoever that any team actually did use water in their tyres

The whole story started because Pirelli found water and watermarks after Singapore in the tires.