2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[basti313]

Two things to mention. 1)Karun Chandhok mentioned that Mclaren had the wrong rear wing here and that costed them on top speed? Did we lose time on the straights or on the turn part?
2)Next two GPs are like Interlagos and Mclaren should be perfect there.

1) Both. The Spa wing would have been perfect, but this was not ok anymore to run. The Monza wing neither had enough downforce nor was it well testest with this car setup. That messed up the setup.
2) Not sure to me. In Abu teams did run Spa wings last year if I remember it correctly. Might also be difficult from the point of rear wing.

At the point everyone said Lando had a chance at WDC, it was after one dominant win. Before that race, the gap to max was steadily opening despite his car struggling.

It was fairy tail.

NOR challenge has ended, now lest focus on getting that Constructors Championship

Norris never really had a chance. Only the media and some fans thought he did.

Sorry, but in another thread you are requesting facts, now posting nonsense?
Interesting especially with the "perfect season" interview from Norris: They dropped easily 50 point. Just do the math. Races where he lost to Piastri without reason or races with blunt errors like Stone or Monza.
Not even counting all the bad starts, not even counting any controversy like Austria or Austin...you are at 50 points. Not counting any bad races where the car is in question before Mia or the last two races...

This ball was dropped, clearly.

[CjC]

Two things to mention. 1)Karun Chandhok mentioned that Mclaren had the wrong rear wing here and that costed them on top speed? Did we lose time on the straights or on the turn part?
2)Next two GPs are like Interlagos and Mclaren should be perfect there.

1) Both. The Spa wing would have been perfect, but this was not ok anymore to run. The Monza wing neither had enough downforce nor was it well testest with this car setup. That messed up the setup.
2) Not sure to me. In Abu teams did run Spa wings last year if I remember it correctly. Might also be difficult from the point of rear wing.

Mclaren have their new medium downforce rear wing that they used in the dry at Interlagos or are you suggesting that you think it’ll be too much downforce for Abu Dhabi?

[mwillems]

Two things to mention. 1)Karun Chandhok mentioned that Mclaren had the wrong rear wing here and that costed them on top speed? Did we lose time on the straights or on the turn part?
2)Next two GPs are like Interlagos and Mclaren should be perfect there.

1) Both. The Spa wing would have been perfect, but this was not ok anymore to run. The Monza wing neither had enough downforce nor was it well testest with this car setup. That messed up the setup.
2) Not sure to me. In Abu teams did run Spa wings last year if I remember it correctly. Might also be difficult from the point of rear wing.

At the point everyone said Lando had a chance at WDC, it was after one dominant win. Before that race, the gap to max was steadily opening despite his car struggling.

It was fairy tail.

NOR challenge has ended, now lest focus on getting that Constructors Championship

Norris never really had a chance. Only the media and some fans thought he did.

Sorry, but in another thread you are requesting facts, now posting nonsense?
Interesting especially with the "perfect season" interview from Norris: They dropped easily 50 point. Just do the math. Races where he lost to Piastri without reason or races with blunt errors like Stone or Monza.
Not even counting all the bad starts, not even counting any controversy like Austria or Austin...you are at 50 points. Not counting any bad races where the car is in question before Mia or the last two races...

This ball was dropped, clearly.

Yes, it was dropped many times and showed no signs of stopping despite a standout race. That's exactly the point.

[yener]

NOR challenge has ended, now lest focus on getting that Constructors Championship

Norris never really had a chance. Only the media and some fans thought he did.

Lol, they had a big chance but threw it away buy not giving team orders before the summer break.

[basti313]

Two things to mention. 1)Karun Chandhok mentioned that Mclaren had the wrong rear wing here and that costed them on top speed? Did we lose time on the straights or on the turn part?
2)Next two GPs are like Interlagos and Mclaren should be perfect there.

1) Both. The Spa wing would have been perfect, but this was not ok anymore to run. The Monza wing neither had enough downforce nor was it well testest with this car setup. That messed up the setup.
2) Not sure to me. In Abu teams did run Spa wings last year if I remember it correctly. Might also be difficult from the point of rear wing.

Mclaren have their new medium downforce rear wing that they used in the dry at Interlagos or are you suggesting that you think it’ll be too much downforce for Abu Dhabi?

Yes. Maybe it also needs a chop at RedBull. They have the tools

[venkyhere]

NOR challenge has ended, now lest focus on getting that Constructors Championship

Norris never really had a chance. Only the media and some fans thought he did.

The newest narrative by DTS F1 fans is - "Max won the WDC because he built up a points lead buffer in the first five races, before Miami, before Mclaren became the real 2024 car".
That just pisses me off. That narrative is sweeping the most important aspect under the carpet. As much as I would have liked a close WDC fight, and a new WDC winner, the 'buffer' was never really reduced by Norris, despite having the best car underneath him after Miami. To put things in perspective, that's 17/22 races, having the faster of the two cars, and having 100% success with updates, against a string of terrible backwards band-aid-fix updates by Redbull.

If we take a big picture view of the season so far,

a) within first 5 races, there was one DNF for Max and 4 wins.
b) the races that followed after the 'transformative' 6th Miami race, where McLaren became the faster car and became kinder to tyres - Imola, Canada, Barcelona -- Max won, by the tiniest of margins - strategy skill of the pitwall or driving skill of driver, or both.
c) Redbullring. Austria. The first signs of a 'proper fight' - Max grabbed a P5 with a puncture sacrifice, while Norris suffered terminal damage.
d) Silverstone was a huge opportunity lost with mickey mouse strategy by McLaren. Max had the 3rd/4th fastest car, but still finished P2 (great last stint on H) ahead of Norris.
e) Then came Hungaroring, Spa and Zandvoort - the RB20 was terrible by now compared to the McLaren, and still Max kept picking up P5 P4 and P2

By now, McLaren is the totally dominant machine and Redbull is surely the 3rd/4th fastest car.

f) Now comes Monza and Baku, and Max's car has almost become a midfielder (horrible setup change after FP3 in baku) and yet again Max is squeezing everything out of the car and bagging P6 and P5
g) The big change for Redbull happened in Singapore, for which they ditched their simulators and setup the car using FP1,2,3 data. Though the car was still much inferior to McLaren, it was best of the rest and Max grabbed an important P2, miles behind Norris nevertheless.
h) The RB20 became more predictable and some sort of floor solution was obtained (frankenstein diffuser or not) for COTA, and Max got to the podium in P3. The reason Norris finished behind, despite having a clearly superior car, was because he couldn't pass a much slower Max for almost 10+ laps, being in the DRS. That was a defensive masterclass from Max, and we could see a nervous Norris, afraid to attack.
i) All the fixes from Singapore and COTA didn't prove their worth in the rarefied air of Mexico, and the RB20 was a dud, miles behind the rampaging McLaren. But still Max picked up a patient (or impatient, rather, after the penalties) P6.
j) Brazil - we all know, it had less to do with the car, it was all driver. " #cojones "
k) LasVegas - again, Redbull was the 3rd fastest car and Max grabbed the 'par' P5 finish. However, McLaren ruined their car setup and Norris finished behind, at P6

When they say 'it was all because of the buffer built at the start' , look at all those points picked up by Max, from b) through j), That is the reason he is world champion (the only exception is Austria, where Norris came worse off a wheel to wheel battle, suffering more damage than Max. Hence can't blame Norris not picking up points there). . And not just because of those 4 wins from the first five races. And for what it's worth, it wasn't as if Norris was finishing outside the points in those first five races, he finished on the podium twice.
So much for the 'it was all from the initial wins' narrative. Max literally drove like a robot (excepting some brain fade moves in Mexico) and consistently grabbed what was possible with the car he had. That's why he won the WDC. Norris, on the other hand, didn't utilize the monster machine he was given by his engineers - whether by volition of his own driving or whether due to mistakes by the pitwall, the 'opportunity with the superior machine' was squandered.

[chrisc90]

Even if you start the season at Miami, the points haul would still have a difference of 21.

Max 293
Lando 272

[Dazmacca5700]

NOR challenge has ended, now lest focus on getting that Constructors Championship

Norris never really had a chance. Only the media and some fans thought he did.

The newest narrative by DTS F1 fans is - "Max won the WDC because he built up a points lead buffer in the first five races, before Miami, before Mclaren became the real 2024 car".
That just pisses me off. That narrative is sweeping the most important aspect under the carpet. As much as I would have liked a close WDC fight, and a new WDC winner, the 'buffer' was never really reduced by Norris, despite having the best car underneath him after Miami. To put things in perspective, that's 17/22 races, having the faster of the two cars, and having 100% success with updates, against a string of terrible backwards band-aid-fix updates by Redbull.

If we take a big picture view of the season so far,

a) within first 5 races, there was one DNF for Max and 4 wins.
b) the races that followed after the 'transformative' 6th Miami race, where McLaren became the faster car and became kinder to tyres - Imola, Canada, Barcelona -- Max won, by the tiniest of margins - strategy skill of the pitwall or driving skill of driver, or both.
c) Redbullring. Austria. The first signs of a 'proper fight' - Max grabbed a P5 with a puncture sacrifice, while Norris suffered terminal damage.
d) Silverstone was a huge opportunity lost with mickey mouse strategy by McLaren. Max had the 3rd/4th fastest car, but still finished P2 (great last stint on H) ahead of Norris.
e) Then came Hungaroring, Spa and Zandvoort - the RB20 was terrible by now compared to the McLaren, and still Max kept picking up P5 P4 and P2

By now, McLaren is the totally dominant machine and Redbull is surely the 3rd/4th fastest car.

f) Now comes Monza and Baku, and Max's car has almost become a midfielder (horrible setup change after FP3 in baku) and yet again Max is squeezing everything out of the car and bagging P6 and P5
g) The big change for Redbull happened in Singapore, for which they ditched their simulators and setup the car using FP1,2,3 data. Though the car was still much inferior to McLaren, it was best of the rest and Max grabbed an important P2, miles behind Norris nevertheless.
h) The RB20 became more predictable and some sort of floor solution was obtained (frankenstein diffuser or not) for COTA, and Max got to the podium in P3. The reason Norris finished behind, despite having a clearly superior car, was because he couldn't pass a much slower Max for almost 10+ laps, being in the DRS. That was a defensive masterclass from Max, and we could see a nervous Norris, afraid to attack.
i) All the fixes from Singapore and COTA didn't prove their worth in the rarefied air of Mexico, and the RB20 was a dud, miles behind the rampaging McLaren. But still Max picked up a patient (or impatient, rather, after the penalties) P6.
j) Brazil - we all know, it had less to do with the car, it was all driver. " #cojones "
k) LasVegas - again, Redbull was the 3rd fastest car and Max grabbed the 'par' P5 finish. However, McLaren ruined their car setup and Norris finished behind, at P6

When they say 'it was all because of the buffer built at the start' , look at all those points picked up by Max, from b) through j), That is the reason he is world champion (the only exception is Austria, where Norris came worse off a wheel to wheel battle, suffering more damage than Max. Hence can't blame Norris not picking up points there). . And not just because of those 4 wins from the first five races. And for what it's worth, it wasn't as if Norris was finishing outside the points in those first five races, he finished on the podium twice.
So much for the 'it was all from the initial wins' narrative. Max literally drove like a robot (excepting some brain fade moves in Mexico) and consistently grabbed what was possible with the car he had. That's why he won the WDC. Norris, on the other hand, didn't utilize the monster machine he was given by his engineers - whether by volition of his own driving or whether due to mistakes by the pitwall, the 'opportunity with the superior machine' was squandered.

Dominant, fastest and terrible, and few more, be better with a totality objective, opposed to subjective.

[Balalu]

NOR challenge has ended, now lest focus on getting that Constructors Championship

Norris never really had a chance. Only the media and some fans thought he did.

The newest narrative by DTS F1 fans is - "Max won the WDC because he built up a points lead buffer in the first five races, before Miami, before Mclaren became the real 2024 car".
That just pisses me off. That narrative is sweeping the most important aspect under the carpet. As much as I would have liked a close WDC fight, and a new WDC winner, the 'buffer' was never really reduced by Norris, despite having the best car underneath him after Miami. To put things in perspective, that's 17/22 races, having the faster of the two cars, and having 100% success with updates, against a string of terrible backwards band-aid-fix updates by Redbull.

If we take a big picture view of the season so far,

a) within first 5 races, there was one DNF for Max and 4 wins.
b) the races that followed after the 'transformative' 6th Miami race, where McLaren became the faster car and became kinder to tyres - Imola, Canada, Barcelona -- Max won, by the tiniest of margins - strategy skill of the pitwall or driving skill of driver, or both.
c) Redbullring. Austria. The first signs of a 'proper fight' - Max grabbed a P5 with a puncture sacrifice, while Norris suffered terminal damage.
d) Silverstone was a huge opportunity lost with mickey mouse strategy by McLaren. Max had the 3rd/4th fastest car, but still finished P2 (great last stint on H) ahead of Norris.
e) Then came Hungaroring, Spa and Zandvoort - the RB20 was terrible by now compared to the McLaren, and still Max kept picking up P5 P4 and P2

By now, McLaren is the totally dominant machine and Redbull is surely the 3rd/4th fastest car.

f) Now comes Monza and Baku, and Max's car has almost become a midfielder (horrible setup change after FP3 in baku) and yet again Max is squeezing everything out of the car and bagging P6 and P5
g) The big change for Redbull happened in Singapore, for which they ditched their simulators and setup the car using FP1,2,3 data. Though the car was still much inferior to McLaren, it was best of the rest and Max grabbed an important P2, miles behind Norris nevertheless.
h) The RB20 became more predictable and some sort of floor solution was obtained (frankenstein diffuser or not) for COTA, and Max got to the podium in P3. The reason Norris finished behind, despite having a clearly superior car, was because he couldn't pass a much slower Max for almost 10+ laps, being in the DRS. That was a defensive masterclass from Max, and we could see a nervous Norris, afraid to attack.
i) All the fixes from Singapore and COTA didn't prove their worth in the rarefied air of Mexico, and the RB20 was a dud, miles behind the rampaging McLaren. But still Max picked up a patient (or impatient, rather, after the penalties) P6.
j) Brazil - we all know, it had less to do with the car, it was all driver. " #cojones "
k) LasVegas - again, Redbull was the 3rd fastest car and Max grabbed the 'par' P5 finish. However, McLaren ruined their car setup and Norris finished behind, at P6

When they say 'it was all because of the buffer built at the start' , look at all those points picked up by Max, from b) through j), That is the reason he is world champion (the only exception is Austria, where Norris came worse off a wheel to wheel battle, suffering more damage than Max. Hence can't blame Norris not picking up points there). . And not just because of those 4 wins from the first five races. And for what it's worth, it wasn't as if Norris was finishing outside the points in those first five races, he finished on the podium twice.
So much for the 'it was all from the initial wins' narrative. Max literally drove like a robot (excepting some brain fade moves in Mexico) and consistently grabbed what was possible with the car he had. That's why he won the WDC. Norris, on the other hand, didn't utilize the monster machine he was given by his engineers - whether by volition of his own driving or whether due to mistakes by the pitwall, the 'opportunity with the superior machine' was squandered.

The twisted narrative is actually the "McLaren had best car after Miami" one. They did at a number of tracks, but not the best outright 2024 F1 car. The best 2024 F1 car has been, for the most part, track dependant.

Redbull had the best car for the first portion of 2024, that is for sure. WDC would have been much closer had that not been the case.

[venkyhere]

If you disagree with my opinion and choice of words and think I wasn't being 'objective enough', fine.
Let's recourse to the world of objective stats. Check whether you can agree with the data :

VER NOR
-----------
pre-
miami 110 58


imola 25 18
monaco 8 12
canada 25 18
spain 25 19
Austr 18 6
stone 18 15
hung 10 18
spa 12 10
zand 18 26
monza 8 16
baku 10 13
singa 18 25
cota 23 18
mex 8 18
--------------
post-
miami
pre-
brazil 226 232


miami 26 25
brazil 31 16
vegas 10 9
-----------
leftovers 67 50

Post Miami, before Brazil :
Will you guys agree that McLaren was the faster car ? sometimes by a little bit, sometimes by a large margin. Almost all times with better tyre deg.
Is 232 v 226 enough to show for it ? Just 6 points ?
This is where Mclaren blew their chances (whether driver or team or both) to mount a challenge for WDC.

[Mclaren-Honda-1988]

According to F1 tech talk that isnt the case. The Red Bull was overall the better car till Hungary either by a huge margin of 6 tenths till Miami or 1 to 2 tenths after Miami depending on circuit. Only from Hungary and after did Mclaren overcame Red Bull and that wasnt by much 1 to 2 tenths. Even that was debatable as many teams like Ferrari and Mercedes also became better and shared many points between them depending on circuit while in the first 5 races the Red Bull car was so fast that even Perez had one or two easy 2nd places. Having a significant point lead does give an advantage no matter how much we try to deny it.

Its time though to focus on the constructors to secure it in the next two races. If the team keeps this fast trajectory with their upgrades and actually bring the whole car at the start in 2025, Lando will have a second chance.

[Ben1980]

It does seem the narrative has been set, and swallowed that Mclaren suddenly jumped ahead at Miami. I'm not sure that is the case.

They almost wiped out the deficit between the cars, but it was still at best equal.

Miami, was won because of the safety car, so large elements of luck. If not, it would have been another Max Pole and win. And the talk would probably be very different.

Emilia R, was another Max pole and Max win, though Mclaren able to challenge.

Canada - mixed race, both cars great in certain conditions. Safety car probably changed course of the race, and evened out the Miami luck. Cars again very similar.

Barcelona- Max got the jump and won, but again close. Cars pretty even.

Austria - Red Bull cruising with pole and a big lead, until a Pitt error. Red Bull likely best car that race.

Gb - mixed race. Mclaren did make errors and could have won. But, RB was mighty at the end. Not sure one was clearly better than the other.

After GB the gap was unsurmountable. And even when RB struggled they still performed, singapore and Netherlands Max taking comfy 2nd place finishes.

First 5 RB were fastest
5 of next 7 equal
Monaco - Mclaren
Austria - Red Bull


Out of the next 10 I'd give 7 to Mclaren.
Belgium looked equal
Las Vegas Red Bull
Sao Paolo - based on race Red Bull had best race car.

Winning 7 out of first 10 pretty much secured the title. And helped by various other teams challenging at certain times.

Mclaren could have done better at times, but I still thinkbthey had could of won races rather than should have won. Apart from Silverstone, which was a stream of errors on the pit wall.

But, its a deserved win.

Next year, I hope the team comes with the right package straight away. As cannot afford any head starts.

[FittingMechanics]

The critical thing is that Red Bull had a significant advantage to the whole field in first part of the season. Max without a teammate was able to scoop up many victories and points while the rest fell back. Then when Red Bull fell back in pace (and others improved), McLaren never had a long stint where they were clearly ahead of everyone. In one race it would be Mercedes, in the other Ferrari and then once again Max. And Norris had Piastri who was able to challenge as well leading to Norris losing points even more.

We've had only three dominant/clean wins this season, Zaandvoort, Hungary and Singapore.

I think it is very unfair to say there was never a chance. There was a chance but Norris (and McLaren) just lacked a little bit extra or needed to be more lucky
1. Better strategy would give them 10-15 points at least,
2. More decisive in team orders and rules would also give at least 10 (7 in Hungary and 3 in Monza, probably more).
3. No mistakes in qualifying (for example Lando out in Q1 in Baku, good recovery but Piastri won, and other situations where Norris could have qualified better)
4. Better Lando starts - probably he get 10+ points just by starting better.
5. Another big moment (roll of the dice) was crash in Austria, instead of Norris overtaking and reducing the gap by 7 or 8 points he DNFed and Max extends by 10 points (17 point swing).
6. Weather in Brazil. Without the rain it is probably a Norris victory further reducing the gap.
7. Piastri - Norris needed Piastri to be able to support him by finishing ahead of Max, this almost never happened.

The chance was there. Max was just perfect and did almost no real mistakes the whole year (even when crashing he got away with it), same can be said for Red Bull managing Max's car. Only real mistake was Mexico where Verstappen got the penalties. Really an incredible season by Max.

Team needs to learn from this, when the margins are so close you need to be perfect like Red Bull and Max.

I hope that we can seal the deal in WCC. Hopefully the team continues to be a front runner in the next years as well.

[selvam_e2002]

Let see how Max will perform in 2025. It is not walk on the cake for him. We will see his true color when the car is not performing well. 2025 will be more or like 2012 before major rule change. I am expecting 4 way WDC in 2025. Mclaren, Ferrari Mercedes and RB. May be AM....

[Balalu]

The only dominant part this year has been the RedBull at the first part of the season.