2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Bracken]

Lewis is a team player when it comes to car development. If it comes down to him having a chance at winning a World Championship? He'll leave Leclerc in the dust.




It's always a funny thread, like the Redbull and McLaren threads.



Top drivers are always greedy, Lewis in 2007 was awesome to watch, just as much as it was awesome to watch Alonso's anger at being challenged. As for Sainz? He's leaving the team, he doesn't really owe them
anything given they replaced him with the Lewis.



If Lewis is on it from the get go, Leclerc will struggle.



Ferrari signed Lewis for his driving skills and his marketablity. You can be the Ferrari goldenboy one minute, and then the number 2 the next. Ferrari rarely show loyalty to drivers past a certain point. They shoved Schumacher out the door when he was still driving well. Leclerc has to step up, Ferrari have other options.



Leclerc lacks consistency at times, but that doesn't make him not a top driver. In fact he's been fairly consistent this season. And Ferrari have made some very poor decisions in the past couple of seasons, so not everything is down to Leclerc. Though Fred has started to improve the decision making processes at Ferrari, still more work to do.



Lewis is not past his prime, he's just been unmotivated due to Mercedes producing one stinker after another in the current regulation set. Lewis checked out of Mercedes a while ago. He was having fun yesterday in the race, showing off his tyre management and overtaking skills.

If it's Ferrari vs Redbull? You'd want Lewis leading the charge in the drivers title battle against Verstappen.

I'm going to tear my eyes out if I have to read more posts like this next year.

He is also definitely on the downslide, you just can't beat father time.

His qualifying laps often have scruffy corners and general untitdyness compared to 5 years ago.

If Ferrari have a car capable of securing poles and winning races consistently, then we'll see if he's past his peak performance as an F1 driver fairly quickly. An unmotivated Lewis tends to look average at best. Which he's looked for most of the season, apart from when he pulls a performance out of the bag i.e. Silverstone.

He had the car for pole on Saturday but just couldn't deliver, when has this ever happened to Lewis? He is definitely on the slide, it's as clear as day in my opinion.

[ScuderiaLeo]

I skipped a lot of the race on Sunday as I watched it late. From what I saw Sainz passed Leclerc after he overheated his tyres but then Leclerc got back past him. So why did Sainz get to stop before Leclerc?

Sainz wore his tires out in the middle stint, similar (though not to the same extent) as Leclerc did in the first stint. Leclerc was lapping around 4-tenths quicker than him in the final few laps of his stint. Therefore, Sainz asked to pit first. He also let Leclerc by a lap before that, though this was a bit too late.

Source: Sainz explained this in his post-race interview with Sky.

*

Again, if someone's entire comment is inflammatory remarks about drivers, it's not worth engaging in. I also don't think the Ferrari thread is the place to discuss Hamilton's current form, considering he's still a Mercedes driver.

[Bracken]

I skipped a lot of the race on Sunday as I watched it late. From what I saw Sainz passed Leclerc after he overheated his tyres but then Leclerc got back past him. So why did Sainz get to stop before Leclerc?

Sainz wore his tires out in the middle stint, similar (though not to the same extent) as Leclerc did in the first stint. Leclerc was lapping around 4-tenths quicker than him in the final few laps of his stint. Therefore, Sainz asked to pit first. He also let Leclerc by a lap before that, though this was a bit too late.

Source: Sainz explained this in his post-race interview with Sky.

*

Again, if someone's entire comment is inflammatory remarks about drivers, it's not worth engaging in. I also don't think the Ferrari thread is the place to discuss Hamilton's current form, considering he's still a Mercedes driver.

Yeah I saw that so Sainz pitted first, Leclerc a few laps later yet still came out ahead of Sainz after he boxed but was on cold tyres and Sainz passed him again? So, why didn't Leclerc then pass Sainz if he was so much faster? I think he is being a bit selfish for moaning about all this.

[ScuderiaLeo]

Yeah I saw that so Sainz pitted first, Leclerc a few laps later yet still came out ahead of Sainz after he boxed but was on cold tyres and Sainz passed him again? So, why didn't Leclerc then pass Sainz if he was so much faster? I think he is being a bit selfish for moaning about all this.

Part of this issue lies with the race engineers, who gave Sainz and Leclerc different instructions. Leclerc was told that "Sainz will not overtake you," only for Sainz to do so a second later. Sainz was not actually told to not overtake Leclerc, but rather that he shouldn't put pressure on him, which he didn't.

Had Bozzi communicated the latter message to Leclerc, I doubt Leclerc would've been as upset. Wording matters.

Additionally, Leclerc was probably upset that Sainz didn't willingly move out of the way in the second stint as he did for Sainz in the first stint.

In my opinion, it was more of a misunderstanding caused by the team. The whole situation would not have happened had they pit Sainz when he asked. In fact, they left both Leclerc and Sainz out on cold tires despite the drivers pretty much begging to come in. They had really poor communication this race. I'm annoyed that this whole Leclerc/Sainz thing is taking attention away from the fact the team messed up here more than either driver. More scrutiny should be on the race engineers and pit wall for their differing instructions and terrible pit strategy.

However, you are of course entitled to your own view. I highly doubt anything will come out of this. It was a single frustrated radio where Leclerc didn't even have all the information at hand. In the past, Leclerc and Sainz have never really carried grudges against each other across multiple races.

[yooogurt]

In my opinion, it was more of a misunderstanding caused by the team. The whole situation would not have happened had they pit Sainz when he asked. In fact, they left both Leclerc and Sainz out on cold tires despite the drivers pretty much begging to come in. They had really poor communication this race. I'm annoyed that this whole Leclerc/Sainz thing is taking attention away from the fact the team messed up here more than either driver. More scrutiny should be on the race engineers and pit wall for their differing instructions and terrible pit strategy.

Both engineers said the same thing, and I think “hes been told not put you under pressure” implies not attacking, otherwise Charles would have defended after the pit and at least not let Sainz overtake where the overtaking took place.
ps. I don't think the decision to drag out the stint on dead tires was very bad, at that point Charles was out of the pit stop window, and Sainz was asking for a second pit stop when there was still half a race ahead, and he already had two sets degraded worse than his competitors, and what to do if the last one dies too? There's only the softs left for two or three laps.

[JPower]

In my opinion, it was more of a misunderstanding caused by the team. The whole situation would not have happened had they pit Sainz when he asked. In fact, they left both Leclerc and Sainz out on cold tires despite the drivers pretty much begging to come in. They had really poor communication this race. I'm annoyed that this whole Leclerc/Sainz thing is taking attention away from the fact the team messed up here more than either driver. More scrutiny should be on the race engineers and pit wall for their differing instructions and terrible pit strategy.

Both engineers said the same thing, and I think “hes been told not put you under pressure” implies not attacking, otherwise Charles would have defended after the pit and at least not let Sainz overtake where the overtaking took place.
ps. I don't think the decision to drag out the stint on dead tires was very bad, at that point Charles was out of the pit stop window, and Sainz was asking for a second pit stop when there was still half a race ahead, and he already had two sets degraded worse than his competitors, and what to do if the last one dies too? There's only the softs left for two or three laps.

That’s a big assumption. I’d argue little to no pressure was put on Leclerc, he was just passed.

If he was told “do not overtake”, there may have been different results.

[AnotherAlex]

That’s a big assumption. I’d argue little to no pressure was put on Leclerc, he was just passed.

If he was told “do not overtake”, there may have been different results.

Feel free to argue, but Sainz knew exactly what the team were asking him to do and chose to ignore it.

Next season will be interesting. One difference I expect is that Hamilton would tell the team when he intends to ignore an instruction.

[dialtone]

Part of this issue lies with the race engineers, who gave Sainz and Leclerc different instructions. Leclerc was told that "Sainz will not overtake you," only for Sainz to do so a second later. Sainz was not actually told to not overtake Leclerc, but rather that he shouldn't put pressure on him, which he didn't.

You think that when you tell Sainz to not put pressure on Leclerc that doesn’t include overtaking?

How exactly do you put pressure on a team mate then? A massage?

[ScuderiaLeo]

You think that when you tell Sainz to not put pressure on Leclerc that doesn’t include overtaking?

How exactly do you put pressure on a team mate then? A massage?

We can reasonably assume not putting pressure = not overtaking. But the point is the wording is vague enough that one could argue the order is not direct. It is the responsibility of the team to be as clear as possible, which they weren't. It should be very easy to give the exact same instruction to both drivers. That way, if one of them gets upset they were at least on the same page.

Anyway... I honestly don't think this is that important. Again, I feel like this discussion is taking the spotlight away from the team, who Vasseur already admitted messed up. Many people here dislike Sainz, which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But he's also leaving in two races so...

Btw, unrelated, I'm sure we've all seen the Cadillac-GM news by now. Here's hoping that rumor about them taking the Ferrari engine was right.

[JPower]

Part of this issue lies with the race engineers, who gave Sainz and Leclerc different instructions. Leclerc was told that "Sainz will not overtake you," only for Sainz to do so a second later. Sainz was not actually told to not overtake Leclerc, but rather that he shouldn't put pressure on him, which he didn't.

You think that when you tell Sainz to not put pressure on Leclerc that doesn’t include overtaking?

How exactly do you put pressure on a team mate then? A massage?

Nope. Didn't hinder Leclerc's tire introduction.

Now if he hounded Leclerc around the track causing them both to nuke their tires early in the stint, different story.

Words are important. Can't make inferences in pressure situations. Say what you mean or it will be interpreted.

[Fakepivot]

how did medium Tyre fall the of face of the earth in first stint? similar happened in Baku for Charles one lap he seems fine next lap his pace just dropped from nowhere. are Pirelli forced to make such bad Tyre for sake of fake entertainment?

[dialtone]

Part of this issue lies with the race engineers, who gave Sainz and Leclerc different instructions. Leclerc was told that "Sainz will not overtake you," only for Sainz to do so a second later. Sainz was not actually told to not overtake Leclerc, but rather that he shouldn't put pressure on him, which he didn't.

You think that when you tell Sainz to not put pressure on Leclerc that doesn’t include overtaking?

How exactly do you put pressure on a team mate then? A massage?

Nope. Didn't hinder Leclerc's tire introduction.

Now if he hounded Leclerc around the track causing them both to nuke their tires early in the stint, different story.

Words are important. Can't make inferences in pressure situations. Say what you mean or it will be interpreted.

This is just hilarious. Anyway, selfish dude will drive for Williams next year, good riddance.

[yooogurt]

That’s a big assumption. I’d argue little to no pressure was put on Leclerc, he was just passed.

If he was told “do not overtake”, there may have been different results.

He overtook him because Charles let him, otherwise he would have had to accelerate harder, which would not have been good for the tires, but allowed him to keep his position. No driver just gives up a position, especially after a pitstop.
And how else do you think pressure can be applied?
I remember the same slow acceleration after the pitstop was in Baku, with a loss of a second or more, but it has a positive effect on tire consumption on the stint.

[Vanja #66]

"Don't put under pressure" when you are behind and "pre-race agreements" are self-explanatory, no? Let's not insult the intelligence of a very clever driver with such arguments

[ScuderiaLeo]

how did medium Tyre fall the of face of the earth in first stint? similar happened in Baku for Charles one lap he seems fine next lap his pace just dropped from nowhere. are Pirelli forced to make such bad Tyre for sake of fake entertainment?

It happened to Sainz too, to a lesser extent. The McLarens also pit early (Norris pit with Leclerc).

It seems like Ferrari and McL just got the setup wrong for the mediums, but it was able to handle the hards perfectly.

But yes, Pirelli tires are meant to fall off on purpose. I dislike the C2/C1 the most in this regard. And if I recall correctly Qatar is the same C3-C1 range...