2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[organic]

Leclerc had a big lead over Verstappen in 2022 and it was reversed.

McLaren and Norris threw away a golden opportunity to win a drivers championship this year.

When did this happen? Verstappen won 4 of the first 6 races in which they both retired once.

Verstappen had a 46 point deficit after 3 rounds and won the title by 146 points. Of course it required Ferrari's car to become comfortably 2nd fastest, but I would argue this happened this season to red bull, given Verstappen went 10 races without a win

[Mostlyeels]

Stella: But in the last stint, a combination of factors meant that we managed to avoid granulating the tyres on Lando's MCL38. We took a number of measures, including a very extreme set-up using the tools he had in the car, and he also changed his driving style a little bit. After that, he was able to keep up with the pace of the leaders.

https://twitter.com/F1BigData/status/18 ... 6001874104

When I saw this in the race, I assumed it was due to lower fuel in the final stint. One race in the second half of this year was similar with Lando. Interesting to find it's just in-car tools.

Bit more detail.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/11/24/ext ... -too-late/

“In the race, in the first two stints, we were just fighting front graining. There was no way that we could stop this phenomenon happening.

“But in the final [hard tyre] stint a combination of various things, including also some changes, quite extreme, that we did with some toys on the car and driving style, the graining didn’t happen on Lando’s car and the pace was as fast as the leaders.”

Stella said the race provided “important learnings for us as a team in terms of how we cope with this phenomenon and with these conditions.” However as the final two races of the year will take place on faster tracks in hotter conditions, those lessons may not prove useful until next year.

[venkyhere]

Where did I state that??

I am not a DTS fan, can't stand that trash.

So I actually agree with everything you said, apart from the beginning where you made false claims about what I have said.

Mate, I was just supporting your original post with more data.
Not sure what made you interpret my post as something against yours.
Cheers

[venkyhere]

Stella: But in the last stint, a combination of factors meant that we managed to avoid granulating the tyres on Lando's MCL38. We took a number of measures, including a very extreme set-up using the tools he had in the car, and he also changed his driving style a little bit. After that, he was able to keep up with the pace of the leaders.

https://twitter.com/F1BigData/status/18 ... 6001874104

When I saw this in the race, I assumed it was due to lower fuel in the final stint. One race in the second half of this year was similar with Lando. Interesting to find it's just in-car tools.

Bit more detail.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/11/24/ext ... -too-late/

“In the race, in the first two stints, we were just fighting front graining. There was no way that we could stop this phenomenon happening.

“But in the final [hard tyre] stint a combination of various things, including also some changes, quite extreme, that we did with some toys on the car and driving style, the graining didn’t happen on Lando’s car and the pace was as fast as the leaders.”

Stella said the race provided “important learnings for us as a team in terms of how we cope with this phenomenon and with these conditions.” However as the final two races of the year will take place on faster tracks in hotter conditions, those lessons may not prove useful until next year.

Good to know that they have root caused the problem and even more glad that the 'on-the-fly' fix they tried within the race, worked out very well.

[FittingMechanics]

Saying McLaren could have won 3-4 more races does not mean that the team would be dominant. Dominant wins are wins where you are not really challenged. Like in Hungary, Zaandvoort and Singapore. All three tracks are super high downforce so it obviously points to the car having a bigger margin (is dominant) on those types of tracks.

Saying McLaren had a dominant car in other races is a fallacy because if it was true, then operational mistakes would not lose them the wins. Kind of like Red Bull in 2023 was able to make mistakes in races and Max would still win, or how Perez ended up P2 in WDC in 2023. That is a dominant car.

Obviously if someone thinks dominant car = car that wins then it is impossible to talk about this because he have fundamental difference in how we view various terms.

[Farnborough]

Stella: But in the last stint, a combination of factors meant that we managed to avoid granulating the tyres on Lando's MCL38. We took a number of measures, including a very extreme set-up using the tools he had in the car, and he also changed his driving style a little bit. After that, he was able to keep up with the pace of the leaders.

https://twitter.com/F1BigData/status/18 ... 6001874104

When I saw this in the race, I assumed it was due to lower fuel in the final stint. One race in the second half of this year was similar with Lando. Interesting to find it's just in-car tools.

Bit more detail.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/11/24/ext ... -too-late/

“In the race, in the first two stints, we were just fighting front graining. There was no way that we could stop this phenomenon happening.

“But in the final [hard tyre] stint a combination of various things, including also some changes, quite extreme, that we did with some toys on the car and driving style, the graining didn’t happen on Lando’s car and the pace was as fast as the leaders.”

Stella said the race provided “important learnings for us as a team in terms of how we cope with this phenomenon and with these conditions.” However as the final two races of the year will take place on faster tracks in hotter conditions, those lessons may not prove useful until next year.

Good to know that they have root caused the problem and even more glad that the 'on-the-fly' fix they tried within the race, worked out very well.

Interesting they changed it on the fly to specifically counter front .? graining. Speculation, but likely would incorporate brake balance further forward, no coast into brake zone, higher diff locking possible in corner in trying to "push" front of chassis into front tire "conflict" mildly.

Hard application of brake with front bias (this is what "brake magic" did ) to generate more wheel temperature, lateral understeer to promote more tire temp, combination too bring up overall wheel & tire assembly in to sweet spot and reduce graining.

Lando would have to drive that differently too, but sounds like they got it there.

Anyone see any steering wheel,adjustment from onboard that would show anything ?

[Mattchu]

When did this happen? Verstappen won 4 of the first 6 races in which they both retired once.

Verstappen had a 46 point deficit after 3 rounds and won the title by 146 points. Of course it required Ferrari's car to become comfortably 2nd fastest, but I would argue this happened this season to red bull, given Verstappen went 10 races without a win

Come on! You of all people should know the first several rounds of the championship in a new set of regulations are teams just working out their cars and getting rid of any gremlins, hence Max had 2 DNF`s in the first 3.
The two situations just aren`t comparable, the Red Bull and Max were brilliant everywhere in 2022 once they got a few issues sorted...
This year McLaren, post Miami have built a car that can compete at the front, the trouble has been in certain circumstances, Ferrari were faster, others Mercedes, even Red Bull with Max, the papaya car hasn`t been at the level of the 22/23 Red Bull that could wipe the floor with everyone, pretty much anywhere!

Lets just hope next year we have 4 teams capable of wins right from the start...

[Ben1980]

Would be interesting what the perception had been if Lando didn't (luckily?) Win in Miami. If he had come second, after being 5th (?) On the grid. Then had similar results but just coming up short of the RB. I think it would be more of, look how much they've closed the gap as now challenging.

If they don't win Miami, I doubt anyone starts saying they are the best car.

[FittingMechanics]

Would be interesting what the perception had been if Lando didn't (luckily?) Win in Miami. If he had come second, after being 5th (?) On the grid. Then had similar results but just coming up short of the RB. I think it would be more of, look how much they've closed the gap as now challenging.

If they don't win Miami, I doubt anyone starts saying they are the best car.

I fully agree. The whole idea that McLaren had the fastest car since Miami is completely wrong.

The car was able to fight for podiums and challenge for wins but it was not clearly fastest anywhere except three high downforce tracks. It may have been fastest in Monaco as well but with Leclerc qualifying ahead and no pitstops (IIRC) it was impossible to show it.

[Cs98]

46 points after 3 races is very different to the deficit Lando would have had to overcome with far fewer races.

Depends on when you start counting. For me Miami (round 6) is the natural place since that is where the McLaren was transformed unlike anything I've ever seen in season.

2022. After round 3, 19 rounds to go, gap 46 points. Gap closed by round 6.

2024. After round 5, 19 rounds to go, gap 52 points. Gap extended to 63 by round 22.

In other words, Lando had the same amount of race weekends to catch a similar gap.

[CMSMJ1]

It's pretty tedious reading the last few pages, not gonna lie!

[PapayaFan481]

Where did I state that??

I am not a DTS fan, can't stand that trash.

So I actually agree with everything you said, apart from the beginning where you made false claims about what I have said.

Mate, I was just supporting your original post with more data.
Not sure what made you interpret my post as something against yours.
Cheers

Ah. In that case I apologise. I read it wrong.

[Mostlyeels]

Interesting they changed it on the fly to specifically counter front .? graining. Speculation, but likely would incorporate brake balance further forward, no coast into brake zone, higher diff locking possible in corner in trying to "push" front of chassis into front tire "conflict" mildly.

Hard application of brake with front bias (this is what "brake magic" did ) to generate more wheel temperature, lateral understeer to promote more tire temp, combination too bring up overall wheel & tire assembly in to sweet spot and reduce graining.

Another parallel tidbit: no (or not many) lockups going into corners on race day (or on cold tyres coming out of the pits), versus lots of lockups in practice, from a wide range of drivers and teams. Brake bias adjustments for that would be further to the rear normally? Obviously factoring out adjusting the braking point and driver skill.

[mwillems]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... .%E2%80%9D

An extremely strong response for "those believing their own BS" that the rear wing made anything more than a minor difference.

[Farnborough]

Interesting they changed it on the fly to specifically counter front .? graining. Speculation, but likely would incorporate brake balance further forward, no coast into brake zone, higher diff locking possible in corner in trying to "push" front of chassis into front tire "conflict" mildly.

Hard application of brake with front bias (this is what "brake magic" did ) to generate more wheel temperature, lateral understeer to promote more tire temp, combination too bring up overall wheel & tire assembly in to sweet spot and reduce graining.

Another parallel tidbit: no (or not many) lockups going into corners on race day (or on cold tyres coming out of the pits), versus lots of lockups in practice, from a wide range of drivers and teams. Brake bias adjustments for that would be further to the rear normally? Obviously factoring out adjusting the braking point and driver skill.

It was interesting to hear views from the team perspective in trying form actions in countering this aspect of tire compromise.

Its using MV example (in a McL thread, but with purpose) in Brazil how he changed from dry track norm to really lengthening the brake phase, rolling in from far out with gentle application, pulling downchanges very slowly to give rear bias and stability under low grip condition, this to effect fine balance at turn #1 in passing others including OP. There was more coverage of him to appreciate this shift in driving, and easy to use it as illustration.

I didn't see anything much of Lando in car at Las Vegas, to appreciate what he changed, hence my projection of what's available to the driver ultimately. Late braking severity, possibly sharply cascading downshift to rotate in final phase of corner entry, all could be method used to shift emphasis. Bring front temps up into range though pays big dividend in driver confidence, then into significant pace enhancing exponential loop as it just gets faster with risk then starting to drop away.

Something I saw in FP1 or 2 (couldn't find clip again) was OP with right rear hanging "on the line" as left turn approach initiated, to just and only just rub the barrier on approach to corner entry, not even comments about it but oh so good to see a driver tread that fine taunting line as he gets the chassis moving around in those confines. He has my admiration certainly.