2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Farnborough
Farnborough
102
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

We touched on it in another thread, tire pressure etc and didn't go much further because of general opinion.

What particularly interests me in analysing this is the reason behind changing it from Pirelli.

Increase of pressure is specifically used to support the tire structure / carcass by reduction of flex under load it is predicted to experience.

To split initially and examine just the structure we must remove the tread area temporarily from considering it's influence.

As they've got a raised front only temperature (against general trend) then they are predicting a harder time from heat build than normal.
Theres other influence definitely, but primarily and major in that heat accumulation is the flexing of the structure by deforming, squashing, sqeezing etc and so by raising start pressure the structure simply flexes less under the projected load it is going to experience.
The risk is taking it over temperature such that it starts to fail in that structure, ultimately to "de-laminate" fall apart in layman's terms.
Also carries risk of tread gauge material literally becoming unbonded from the structure to give initially "blistering" or more substantial tread detachment.

Now the more interesting relationship with the tread. The flex comes from the tread being "located " effectively to the track ... grip in other words. This to cause the structure now to bend between vehicle mass (including aero load) how the tire holds the track.
I'll use the example of soft tire here, if the driver raises the tread temperature very fast, such that the structure temperature doesn't have decent chance to follow that "curve" in accumulation, then the tread can go over temperature and start reducing grip against track from sliding too much. At which point the ability to generate flex in the structure now goes down. The driver starts to feel understeer, the structure doesn't see enough flex to bring it into optimum, the they call that "graining " which makes them slower.
Just as LeClerc did in Las Vegas when Max caught him after roasting his tread but not having built heat in structure sufficient to let the WHOLE tire function within it's IDEAL temperature range.

The alternate approach is to bring them in slowly (notice that in MV&RB, also Ferrari chassis) then as the structure temp comes up to ideal AND the tread coincide, then the full performance can be extracted.

Raised pressure increases that gap POTENTIAL between getting them both to the same place, at the same time.

The car with the absolute greatest load will always have advantages in accumulation of tire structure flex (that MB chassis seems to do this) to switch on tires (also valuable at low temp, but not exclusively) and demonstrates better performance with less risk.
Some circuit and pressure combination clearly favour just this raised pressure, for some chassis.
Conversely, high track heat and ambient temperature may take both the structure and the surface too high and out of range.

The problem the driver faces here, in a sprint, is that there will be precious little room to work their own characteristics of car tire interaction while even holding their position. Its he'll for leather from the start. That also leaves naff all room for any sort a strategy.
Get any graining and you'll be "toasted" by those near you, with little options in practical terms. There's very little in the way of respite to let the fronts recover around the lap , then try to give it absolutely everything in it out of last corner so you don't get caught by DRS down that straight.

It's gonna be hectic for all.

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Same pace as haas. Clap, clap, clap

f1isgood
f1isgood
1
Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Red Bull can only do 4 year cycles it seems. It might be so over for this team. WTF was that?

I wasn't expecting much. But even then.

Maybe they should have simply run an un-upgraded car the entire year.
Call a spade, a spade.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Imagine winning a WDC in this car.
A lion must kill its prey.

f1isgood
f1isgood
1
Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Juzh wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:28
Same pace as haas. Clap, clap, clap
I'd argue it was slower, similar to Mexico?
Call a spade, a spade.

f1isgood
f1isgood
1
Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:34
Imagine winning a WDC in this car.
Greatest achievement of all time for sure!
Call a spade, a spade.

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:34
Imagine winning a WDC in this car.
But dialtone (and norris) will tell you the car was never 4th fastest and actually is by far the best trough the season.

f1isgood
f1isgood
1
Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Juzh wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:36
AR3-GP wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:34
Imagine winning a WDC in this car.
But dialtone (and norris) will tell you the car was never 4th fastest and actually is by far the best trough the season.
One hates Verstappen with a passion and the other can't believe that he bottled it so hard and will probably never recover from this lol.
Call a spade, a spade.

User avatar
ME4ME
79
Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 16:37

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Shocking.

And Perez again displaying his incompetence as a driver.

f1isgood
f1isgood
1
Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

I have no hope for Rb21. Getting ready to be 4th fastest at best. Maybe I will live through 2015 in 2025 afterall.
Call a spade, a spade.

dialtone
dialtone
121
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

f1isgood wrote:
Juzh wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:36
AR3-GP wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:34
Imagine winning a WDC in this car.
But dialtone (and norris) will tell you the car was never 4th fastest and actually is by far the best trough the season.
One hates Verstappen with a passion and the other can't believe that he bottled it so hard and will probably never recover from this lol.
I don't hate Max. He's the best on the grid, and deserves the championship.

He placed the car 3rd in WCC racing alone while everyone else has team mates, through the season that was the best car for a longer stretch than any other car was.

Cs98
Cs98
33
Joined: 01 Jul 2022, 11:37

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Pace was disappointing to be sure, but slightly exaggerated by the fact that the Haas was legitimately fast. This car is just really average in medium and slow speed corners.

IntrinsicVoid
IntrinsicVoid
0
Joined: 19 Mar 2023, 14:45

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

dialtone wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:48
f1isgood wrote:
Juzh wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:36

But dialtone (and norris) will tell you the car was never 4th fastest and actually is by far the best trough the season.
One hates Verstappen with a passion and the other can't believe that he bottled it so hard and will probably never recover from this lol.
I don't hate Max. He's the best on the grid, and deserves the championship.

He placed the car 3rd in WCC racing alone while everyone else has team mates, through the season that was the best car for a longer stretch than any other car was.
I also agree on this. If the season started like this he would never win the WDC. But amnesia/dementia/Alzheimer is a common thing here as the start of this season is suddenly forgotten. We may need to pour more funds into those health researches :lol:

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

dialtone wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:48
f1isgood wrote:
Juzh wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:36

But dialtone (and norris) will tell you the car was never 4th fastest and actually is by far the best trough the season.
One hates Verstappen with a passion and the other can't believe that he bottled it so hard and will probably never recover from this lol.
I don't hate Max. He's the best on the grid, and deserves the championship.

He placed the car 3rd in WCC racing alone while everyone else has team mates, through the season that was the best car for a longer stretch than any other car was.
Again that isn't true

Cs98
Cs98
33
Joined: 01 Jul 2022, 11:37

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

IntrinsicVoid wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:52
dialtone wrote:
30 Nov 2024, 16:48
f1isgood wrote:
One hates Verstappen with a passion and the other can't believe that he bottled it so hard and will probably never recover from this lol.
I don't hate Max. He's the best on the grid, and deserves the championship.

He placed the car 3rd in WCC racing alone while everyone else has team mates, through the season that was the best car for a longer stretch than any other car was.
I also agree on this. If the season started like this he would never win the WDC. But amnesia/dementia/Alzheimer is a common thing here as the start of this season is suddenly forgotten. We may need to pour more funds into those health researches :lol:
So you are saying people here have dementia and Alzheimer's, and that they need to do medical research on them? This is a very appropriate comment and subject to be discussing on an F1 forum. Jesus...