2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[GrizzleBoy]

Every time someone tries to disagree they just prove my point.

Not a great sign when you have to argue like this.

That's my point. This is supposed to be George's best ever performance at Merc, but he's only just about beating a team mate on his way to another team, whos having his worst ever season in the sport.

Your point is largely made up of premises that many people don't agree with. The chief among them being that George is "barely beating" Lewis. To me, he is trouncing him. I gave you the numbers before, 12-6 in the races, 17-5 in quali. Points have been made to look closer than they should be based on Spa and Silverstone.

As far as it being the worst season for Lewis, maybe it is, but that's not a fact, that's an opinion. 2011 wasn't great in my book, neither was 2022 against a first year teammate in Lewis' team.

Furthermore you seem to think that comparing WDC position between years is some sort of relevant metric. It's not. It's mostly a function of car performance relative to the competition. This year Merc has been solidly 4th best, last year they finished 2nd in the WCC, so of course that will influence your WDC positions. Getting in the top 5 this year was simply not feasible with their car, even if you add in Spa and Silverstone for George. Arguing as if relative car performance is static makes for an awful argument.

The problem with saying George is trouncing Lewis, is that the points gap doesn't reflect that and a DNF in a race you were already going backwards in once the track got damp (and it was damp most of the race)and a disqualification for an illegal car because you got put on a strategy you were lucky enough to try only because your race pace relative the other top cars put you so far out of contention, at the front, doesn't change that.

If you want to go that route then let's talk about multiple instances of Lewis' car needing pit lane starts due to suspension parts not being built correctly in the garage/unplanned engine component changesetc or yet to be properly explained dumbassery like the Singapore Grand Prix where even George in a press conference during the weekend openly/surprisingly expressed that he knew Merc effed Lewis out of a podium position with the strategy as soon as he saw what tyres they put him on to start the race.

Anyway.

That's why I say again, if somehow Lewis has two very good races and they both end up within single digits of one another at the end of the season, calling this season the best ever season for George just seems weird.

If anything, it would symbolise that despite the quali disparity, he hasn't actually capitalised. Evidenced mostly by the fact that you could generally expect the two drivers to end races at least in somewhat similar positions despite what happens in qualifying.

Which again sounds like a weird thing to say about a best season ever.

Which makes it seem like the only reason the above would point toward such accolades is because it's Lewis he beat.

But even then, you're supposedly now not allowed to say that it was not a version of Lewis at his best, because apparently not everyone agrees he's had a bad season or that his quali performance (i.e literally the thing he's known for and what allowed George to finish ahead most of the time) has been uncharacteristically poor.

If it was Antonelli with those head to head stats in Lewis' position, would anyone at Merc be feeling so proud about 6th and 7th in the WDC?

[ToffeeTyres]

I think Lewis simply doesn’t have the feel of the car under him to his liking and hasn't got the confidence in it. Could be down to the suspension being so stiff. The tyres too are different and every driver has complained aren’t the same even in qualifying. The car is really unpredictable gives a false sense of it’s ok then it will bite and snap oversteer, he simply has no confidence in it. When Hamilton has confidence and feel so he can drive his natural way that’s when we see the best in him. He just can’t drive this car naturally so has to adapt to it and also over pushes it and he as the mistakes he’s had. If he has a car next year at Ferrari that he can feel and has confidence he will be proving all the doubters wrong especially those who think it’s down to age and he’s past it

[Tvetovnato]

Such a poisonous, poisonous thread this always is. Depressing. That mods allow it to continue is baffling.

With any sort of objectivity, the simple fact is that Lewis is clearly not comfortable in this car and finds it very inconsistent. That has been a trait of the ground effect era for him for some reason, seemingly down to the extremely sensitive tyres and the peaks in temp when leaning on them. This is magnified in qualifying when you want to lean on them the most, and also the reason why he is always better in the races when you can’t.

George has simply found a way to be much more consistent, especially this year. Those who always are on here saying how average George is as soon as he makes a small mistake and that he is not champion material, can sort off. He was brought into the team not to replace Bottas, but to replace Lewis. He was chosen by Mercedes because of his quality, as he has proven in junior series and in F1 too. He is simply an elite driver. Elite drivers can beat elite drivers, it’s only natural. Take it. Accept it.

And to all the tossers on here for the sole reason of slating Lewis and punching a man who is struggling - he has not forgotten how to drive. He is still every bit as capable of beating George as he has been before, he is simply not extracting it this season. It was evident already last weekend what he can do when it works for him. His body language screams that he needs a restart at Ferrari, and it comes just at the right time. If he finds a way to trust that car, he is in the championship fight again already next year.

So - George is an extremely good driver. Lewis is too. We don’t need to have a villain all the f**ing time. Not that hard to understand and shouldn’t be so hard to admit either. It would make the forum a much better place if people could tone down this cr*p.

[ToffeeTyres]

Such a poisonous, poisonous thread this always is. Depressing. That mods allow it to continue is baffling.


So - George is an extremely good driver. Lewis is too. We don’t need to have a villain all the f**ing time. Not that hard to understand and shouldn’t be so hard to admit either. It would make the forum a much better place if people could tone down this cr*p.

Well said. We don’t need this drama it’s pathetic. If they want to continue this cr*p go to another forum like autosport or the comments section on motorsport website it’s full of it on those, I’m sure they will fit right in

[OverheatedTurbo]

Why don’t we stop bickering about who is better and focus on how the team will do tomorrow? I can see a podium since this is a front limited track and the boys haven’t whined about the rear sliding everywhere. I think they’ll be right up there if they can keep those tires in check and for the looks of it, they might!

[Luscion]

Why don’t we stop bickering about who is better and focus on how the team will do tomorrow? I can see a podium since this is a front limited track and the boys haven’t whined about the rear sliding everywhere. I think they’ll be right up there if they can keep those tires in check and for the looks of it, they might!

Podium for Russell for sure i think, idk if Ham will have enough time to make this way through the field in 19 laps, maybe p4-p5?, but i said Merc didnt have the race pace to beat Ferrari and Mclaren last week and was completely wrong

[OverheatedTurbo]

Why don’t we stop bickering about who is better and focus on how the team will do tomorrow? I can see a podium since this is a front limited track and the boys haven’t whined about the rear sliding everywhere. I think they’ll be right up there if they can keep those tires in check and for the looks of it, they might!

Podium for Russell for sure i think, idk if Ham will have enough time to make this way through the field in 19 laps, maybe p4-p5?, but i said Merc didnt have the race pace to beat Ferrari and Mclaren last week and was completely wrong

Yeah, did LH kept the lower df beam wing? In FP1 he had a smaller bw than George. I’m not sure if he went with the same bw level as George..

[CaribouBread]

Beautiful quali effort from George tbh, didn't expect anyone to get even a sniff of the Mclarens here.

[Big Tea]

Every time someone tries to disagree they just prove my point.

Ok, so like I said the argument chops and changes to whatever makes George's performance seem more substantial and we are now in the realm of people being accused of arguing in bad faith when they say Lewis has had a large overall performance slump this year in the context of his team mates performance?

So if you say that one of the best qualifiers in the sport has not done well at all in qualifying this year, apparently THAT is the delusional take not worth talking to people who express that view lol.

But then when Lewis himself says he's been slower than hes normally capable of being, that's also used by the same people who just think George is the better driver to tell people to stop making excuses for Lewis.

But then when you mention it in the context of comparing the amount of performance increase or decrease per driver, apparently he's not actually slow at all, hes performing just as well as he did in 2023 and its just that George is just having an amazing season.

It's quite simply one of three things.

1. George has stepped it up to a level that Lewis just can't match.
2. Lewis has deteriorated considerably.
3. The team are not giving Hamilton the tools to reach his full potential.

You say Not giving him the tools, I believe his "slump" began when he started telling the world the engineers were not giving him what he asked for, and claims he was right all along, so is he now getting what he asks for not what the team think is the best car?

[OverheatedTurbo]

I don’t know what to make of these results. Seems that we can hang with the Mclaren but I feel they’re still slightly faster.

[Luscion]

I don’t know what to make of these results. Seems that we can hang with the Mclaren but I feel they’re still slightly faster.

Quicker than Piastri, slower than Norris

[OverheatedTurbo]

I don’t know what to make of these results. Seems that we can hang with the Mclaren but I feel they’re still slightly faster.

Quicker than Piastri, slower than Norris

Yeah. Zak just said that #81 can be tweaked to find more performance.

[Matt2725]

Piastri is just that much slower mind you.

He'd have probably been P4 at least without his teammate holding him in DRS.
Not sure how much they can find without compromising his tyre longevity.

GR was obviously annoyed post sprint but understandably.

[Luscion]

[proteus]

Nobody knows exactly why Lewis has so much problems lately. Might be the car itself, maybe a team, or by simply getting old. He is doing other stuff to himself which might be harming him in the long term. His new carreer at Ferrari will show that.