2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Balalu]

I woulden't be surprized if the turn up with essentially a moderately updated MCL38. Just remember F1 is not just played on track.

[BMMR61]

I find the discussion once again veers into some pretty irrelevant and barely verifiably true. Pages of stuff that over-eggs the pudding just becomes tedious - IN MY OPINION.

There appeared to be an unannounced decision by the FIA/Race Director/stewards of the day, to adjudicate with maximum force, maybe to announce to the drivers that they're a pack of upstarts and "WE" are under control here. That seems an inescapable conclusion from watching for a long time and seeing some pretty deliberate and dangerous behaviour by drivers (and teams) go unpunished or lightly punished.

I watched the race initially by a livestream watch along and there appeared to be a sector 1 yellow which was quickly removed then put back before becoming a full course yellow and safety car. My impression was Max and Lando arrived at the scene just in time to get the beginning of the yellow - please correct me if I am mistaken. The reason for the double waved yellows (normally reserved for major safety concerns) was for the mirror lying off the racing line but on the overtaking line. It was absolutely obvious that a normal yellow was sufficient. However I do agree Lando was at fault, a minor error but an error all the same. The penalty was one short of a black flag DSQ. If people think the penalty was appropriate then I don't have any energy to try and turn that opinion around, it's impossible I think.

I don't think McLaren has had any good luck come it's way since the Miami SC and lots, especially for Oscar, that has been cruel. Nevertheless it's racing sense to conclude "you have to make your own luck" which Max has been extremely good at.

[basti313]

Radio comunication really needs to improve. I don't know the behind the scenes discussions, but the "Lando, how is your pace compared to what my mother is cooking for Christmas. Also, box this lap if you think that Max will be skiing in the holidays." is simply not on.

Too much chatter. Should utter only the usefull/informative words.

There was another where he said "Lando, I know you might bite my head off for asking, but..."

To which Lando replied "Speak up, I can't hear you".

Too much friendship in that moment, it needs cold race management. Is there an issue that they can't distinguish between their race relationship, general working professional relationship and friendship?

This is was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

He needs a leading engineer, not a buddy.

I just listend to the full team radio of Ver and Nor for the race...this is just horrible, what they are doing, huge, huge difference:
GP just gives Max the necessary updates on gaps and corners where he is loosing time. Clear instructions what to do like "reset diff high speed" and clear questions on the front wing. Confirmations with button and without extra question.
For Lando this is a mess. They have the same driving instructions and gaps, but additionally:
- Adjustments of the car are not given as clear instructions, but buttons to press in a certain way.
- Too much driving instructions. I think in the first three laps there are already two instructions on how to drive certain corners.
- They even give him the gaps to Perez, Magnussen and Hamilton long before the pit window, complete nonsense at this stage and generally as some gaps are at 10sec.
- They ask for and give verbal confirmations. Sometimes half the radio is just "please confirm" - "confirmed".
- They start a nonsense argument on the SC lights
- They start chick chat about the mirror instead of "obey the double yellow".

There is simply no radio discipline.

[Mclaren-Honda-1988]

Its clear as day that Liberty Media wanted a last race drama but there will be different opinions on the matter. At the end of the day we cant change anything no matter how much we discuss it. Its best to move on. Regarding Abu Dhabi. Are the track characteristics like Brazil's for Mclaren to use that medium df rear wing?

[bauc]

Its clear as day that Liberty Media wanted a last race drama and there will be different opinions on the matter. At the end of the day we cant change anything no matter how much we discuss it. Its best to move on. Regarding Abu Dhabi. Are the track characteristics like Brazil's for Mclaren to use that medium df rear wing?

100% true, I share the same view.... they even hinted that during the race with THE FIGHT WILL GO DOWN IN ABU DABI....bla bla bla..... We will need to cheer for Max and Mercedes as on paper, we are 4th best team there behind RBR Ferrari and Mercedes.

[Farnborough]

I find the discussion once again veers into some pretty irrelevant and barely verifiably true. Pages of stuff that over-eggs the pudding just becomes tedious - IN MY OPINION.

There appeared to be an unannounced decision by the FIA/Race Director/stewards of the day, to adjudicate with maximum force, maybe to announce to the drivers that they're a pack of upstarts and "WE" are under control here. That seems an inescapable conclusion from watching for a long time and seeing some pretty deliberate and dangerous behaviour by drivers (and teams) go unpunished or lightly punished.

I watched the race initially by a livestream watch along and there appeared to be a sector 1 yellow which was quickly removed then put back before becoming a full course yellow and safety car. My impression was Max and Lando arrived at the scene just in time to get the beginning of the yellow - please correct me if I am mistaken. The reason for the double waved yellows (normally reserved for major safety concerns) was for the mirror lying off the racing line but on the overtaking line. It was absolutely obvious that a normal yellow was sufficient. However I do agree Lando was at fault, a minor error but an error all the same. The penalty was one short of a black flag DSQ. If people think the penalty was appropriate then I don't have any energy to try and turn that opinion around, it's impossible I think.

I don't think McLaren has had any good luck come it's way since the Miami SC and lots, especially for Oscar, that has been cruel. Nevertheless it's racing sense to conclude "you have to make your own luck" which Max has been extremely good at.

I agree with your assessment in regards to severity, penalty etc.

Something I've also noted on dedicated thread, is that the marshal at that post (it was clear sight of flags from MV onboard before light board came on) HAS to react to what they saw at that moment, debris (possibly unidentified initially) 300kph plus approach with possibly limited driver view of suspect issue. There's no real choice but to flag it as seen immediately from that perspective. Also shown in illustration by the "administration" system lagging trigger of that light board to enhance visual.

In hindsight, that double may have been too severe, but botas moving to then run over it calls driver's interpretation into question. Was that an overtake by others on Botas under yellow caution ?

Ending in a bit of a mess, but I can see the logic in how it started with that marshal's caution, after all a front line protective measure for the approaching drivers.

[Seerix]

There was another where he said "Lando, I know you might bite my head off for asking, but..."

To which Lando replied "Speak up, I can't hear you".

Too much friendship in that moment, it needs cold race management. Is there an issue that they can't distinguish between their race relationship, general working professional relationship and friendship?

This is was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

He needs a leading engineer, not a buddy.

I just listend to the full team radio of Ver and Nor for the race...this is just horrible, what they are doing, huge, huge difference:
GP just gives Max the necessary updates on gaps and corners where he is loosing time. Clear instructions what to do like "reset diff high speed" and clear questions on the front wing. Confirmations with button and without extra question.
For Lando this is a mess. They have the same driving instructions and gaps, but additionally:
- Adjustments of the car are not given as clear instructions, but buttons to press in a certain way.
- Too much driving instructions. I think in the first three laps there are already two instructions on how to drive certain corners.
- They even give him the gaps to Perez, Magnussen and Hamilton long before the pit window, complete nonsense at this stage and generally as some gaps are at 10sec.
- They ask for and give verbal confirmations. Sometimes half the radio is just "please confirm" - "confirmed".
- They start a nonsense argument on the SC lights
- They start chick chat about the mirror instead of "obey the double yellow".

There is simply no radio discipline.

I actually think, they talk like this on purpose (not that I agree). I recall couple years back they were reviewing their driver <-> engineer communication and I believe this came out of it.
For some of your points I think it's just their way of handling it (like car switches are fine, white H 11 pos 5 - it's simpler then telling driver to do a diff change and then driver having to 'translate' it to a setting on the steering wheel, or confirm safety car window - just to make sure the driver understood what he has been told and does not just automatically press the confirm button without even realizing what he confirmed) but some other points I certainly agree. It's supposed to be factual, precise, understandable and quick.

[CjC]

Stella commenting on probably what we are all feeling.
A lot of laptime needs to be found over the winter to be in the 2025 championship fights.

McLaren need to ‘raise’ the bar’
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10678213/

Not so sure how much laptime there is to gain with these cars. Widening the working window is probably a bigger goal in general as it seems very easy to fall into traps with respect to car development.

I’ve wondered the same myself about finding more lap time but considering Stella said ‘raise the bar’ and ‘3 months ago he was happy with the trajectory’ and now isn’t so happy can only mean lap time is needed.
Also Lando said after quali in Qatar that the current car has a decent set up window which allows them to hit the track straight away close to the sweet spot.

[f1isgood]

Stella commenting on probably what we are all feeling.
A lot of laptime needs to be found over the winter to be in the 2025 championship fights.

McLaren need to ‘raise’ the bar’
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10678213/

Not so sure how much laptime there is to gain with these cars. Widening the working window is probably a bigger goal in general as it seems very easy to fall into traps with respect to car development.

I’ve wondered the same myself about finding more lap time but considering Stella said ‘raise the bar’ and ‘3 months ago he was happy with the trajectory’ and now isn’t so happy can only mean lap time is needed.
Also Lando said after quali in Qatar that the current car has a decent set up window which allows them to hit the track straight away close to the sweet spot.

Yeah this car is basically like the RB19. Wide window, put on track and it works. It also has a better compromise. The engineers delivered a really good car.

[Mclarenfanboy]

Maybe next years car should have baked in software , so the 2025 beauty can lift on double yellows on it s own. Sorry, just had to, could not helped myself.

[CjC]

As I mentioned a few days ago, Mclaren invested a lot of resource into 7 rear wings this season- I’m not saying that was a waste but to my non-technical observations out of the top 4 Mclaren haven’t developed the floor much.

For example Ferrari, who Stella claims have the fastest car… their edge wing (on what is probably their 2025 floor) is significantly more mature than McLarens edge wing. I know it’s all about what you can’t see with these floors but the fact Ferrari are developing their edge wing must mean their under floor which we can’t see must be extremely mature as well.

Whether there is a lot of laptime to still be found- we’ll only find out next season- I have my doubts that there is much to find but currently only the teams know

Sorry mate, I have to mark my objection to this comment. McLaren is the only car on the grid, post Miami, that's consistently quick (deserving of podium) in every single race since Miami. The MCL38 has the widest 'working window' on the grid, and that's because they have the most nuanced floor on the grid. Any downforce level, any tyre, the McLaren is part of the leader pack in any track. Their development path has met their goals with every single upgrade package (unlike every other team on the grid who had atleast 1 terrible update which proved to be a downgrade).

And you say the floor is their Achilles heel ? The floor is their biggest strength.

Happy to read a different point of view, especially from a rival fans perspective.

Yes, that is a fair point, I totally agree the MCL38 is a fair machine- definitely the best car Mclaren have produced in 12 years.

I don’t have an issue with its floor, nor do I see it as its Achilles heels, like you say it’s their strength, it literally gives them a very good base to work the rest of the car around.

My concern is compared to the other 3 in the top 4, Mclarens edge wing isn’t looking as mature and I know complexity isn’t the be all and end all but if the others can get their more complex deign right then they could leave Mclaren behind.

I also saw your summary of the RB20 yesterday regarding its floor, tyres, combo which was another good post