2025 McLaren F1 Team

[billamend]

You mean Seidl, not Stella.

Of course, thank you.

[mwillems]

Red Bull continued to have better aerodynamics than McLaren for an entire decade so clearly McLaren was not that lucky. That he is now considered useless by some because the latest Aston adventure did not work out for him is way too harsh.

Indeed. For a few years, up until the Mclaren renaissance, Peter P was getting some pretty strong opinions in here because the team weren't delivering on track. Turns out he was OK.

What is almost confirmed is that Key and ~Stella~ Seidl put Peter P “on a closet” and didn’t involve him much on the car design.

There can be all sorts of reasons that aren't as obvious as many like to leap towards.

[-wkst-]

The most important reason why McLaren wasn't competitive for a long time is just MONEY. Without the budget cap the team would still be nowhere near the top, as others would simply outspend them by a heavy sum of money. Top calibre engineers would have never joined them.

[genarro]

The most important reason why McLaren wasn't competitive for a long time is just MONEY. Without the budget cap the team would still be nowhere near the top, as others would simply outspend them by a heavy sum of money. Top calibre engineers would have never joined them.

Not negating your statement and yes when the team was underperforming they were also underfinaced. We all remeber the bare cars with absolute no sponsors. But i think the main thing was the parity of the engines. Now customers are given the same engines. gone are the days when a customer team had 150 hp less than the works team (just remember when customer teams were given maping with extra hp during a race to defend from their main competitors). We now have a seat at the design table at Merc HPP. That i think was crucial. Even without the cost cap I think that Zak would eventualy build up a budget similar to Fer, Merc, RB and we would be competitive. it would have probably taken quite a lot longer for us to fight for championships, thats for sure.

[mwillems]

After the Honda split, it was a struggle for about 3 years, but for the rest of the time we weren't far away from Red Bull in Money.

............Mcl..RB....Diff
2015 188 181 07
2016 180 197 -17
2017 196 231 -35

[basti313]

But i think the main thing was the parity of the engines. Now customers are given the same engines. gone are the days when a customer team had 150 hp less than the works team (just remember when customer teams were given maping with extra hp during a race to defend from their main competitors). We now have a seat at the design table at Merc HPP. That i think was crucial.

I do not know if this is true or in any way relevant for McLaren.

McLaren never had the issue, first with Honda as "works team", then parity with Renault, whom they could beat. The time with Merc started with the party mode ban.

I also do not see the point on the "design table". Was this different to 2022? When Merc repacked the engine, McLaren was clearly again far from optimal with packing and cooling.

[Emag]

But i think the main thing was the parity of the engines. Now customers are given the same engines. gone are the days when a customer team had 150 hp less than the works team (just remember when customer teams were given maping with extra hp during a race to defend from their main competitors). We now have a seat at the design table at Merc HPP. That i think was crucial.

I do not know if this is true or in any way relevant for McLaren.

McLaren never had the issue, first with Honda as "works team", then parity with Renault, whom they could beat. The time with Merc started with the party mode ban.

I also do not see the point on the "design table". Was this different to 2022? When Merc repacked the engine, McLaren was clearly again far from optimal with packing and cooling.

Power Units were always seen as an easy cope-out for people because on the first 2 years of the modern hybrid era, the customers and the works team did not get the same engines.

Still, blaming the entire disadvantage on the disparity between power units is preposterous. As you mentioned here, this doesn't really apply for McLaren, but even if it did (assuming McLaren kept going with Mercedes after 2014), you can't realistically put the average gap of 2+ seconds McLaren had to Mercedes (based on 2014 numbers) entirely down to power unit disparity.

And assuming you would, there would be nothing to blame from 2016 onwards, because FIA enforced a new rule which meant customers got the exact same power unit as the works team.

The truth of the matter is that McLaren was just a horrible team for the better part of the last decade. Put financial troubles on top of that in combination with (what was reported back then) toxic working environment, it's really no wonder the on-track results were that horrid.

They had smaller budget, were horribly organized and had bled talent to other top teams. It wasn't until they got a real slap to the face in 2018 when they finally had nothing to blame but their own incompetence that Zak started "the revolution" to turn the team around, slowly building it back into a championship-contender.

It's just a shame that the deal with Honda came at such a bad period for the team. If the McLaren of today had partnered with Honda (and not rush them), we might have actually seen a repeat of the 80s-90s success.

[FittingMechanics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GhfyU6oXwAA ... me=900x900

They will not show the new car untill preseason day 1, this makes me supper happy and worried and the same time

A shame really. I liked that McLaren always showed the real car and not just painted a livery onto last years model.

Don't think it means that much, with how all teams are showing the car at the same spot maybe they feel it is hard to control against "spying".

[taperoo2k]

The most important reason why McLaren wasn't competitive for a long time is just MONEY. Without the budget cap the team would still be nowhere near the top, as others would simply outspend them by a heavy sum of money. Top calibre engineers would have never joined them.

Money while important won't make you win championships in F1 (see Toyota). What matters is building the right culture in a team to get the most out of the talent you have. Which is what Zak Brown has been so assiduous about since he became CEO. He's made some tough calls to get McLaren where they are.

The problem with the Ron Dennis McLaren is they'd become so rigid in the belief they could win merely because they were McLaren saw the team fall behind the competition. The Honda disaster was perhaps the thing the team needed to wake it up. Not knocking Ron Dennis and what he achieved at McLaren, he just didn't move with the times in F1.

We are firmly in the Zak Brown era of McLaren. It's a team capable of success, even with regulation changes.

[-wkst-]

After all money is the most important thing, because it's the base. And that's what they were lacking, when they didn't have success. Without the financial fundament, I can have the best culture or the best team structure, but if the best guys work for other teams and my infrastructure is outdated, I have no chance. Who believes that McLaren would currently drive at the front without the budget cap believes in fairy tales in my opinion.

[90feet]

The most important reason why McLaren wasn't competitive for a long time is just MONEY. Without the budget cap the team would still be nowhere near the top, as others would simply outspend them by a heavy sum of money. Top calibre engineers would have never joined them.

This isn't really true at all. They lacked sponsors, but the few sponsors they had were relatively big money deals, and the Bahrainis pumped cash into the team every year to help make up for it. They were being outspent by Red Bull/Mercedes/Ferrari, sure, but not by a massive amount.

The actual biggest reason was just a lack of effective leadership. Zak put Fry/Stella/Prodromou in charge and they instantly turned the team around, before few other changes had been made.

[Darth-Piekus]

In my opinion it's a combination that made Mclaren lag behind and not just one or two. The Honda Engine was horrible let's not kid ourselves in terms of HP and speed and had a tendency to break apart the moment it was getting pushed to the limit. The aerodynamics lost as years passed due to the team bleeding their best talent out and also having so old and outdated infrastructure. Then we can all agree that we never had a Hamilton or a Schumacher on the team that knew how to evolve a car and unite a team around. Finally we can also agree that Ron Dennis despite his many years successes, stuck in the past refusing to go on with the times. The money in my opinion does play a role but compared to the other reasons it's the least important.

At least all bad things are behind us. The Empress of F1 has returned and is sitting to the rightful throne of F1 restoring the natural order and enforcing the Papaya Rules to the rest of the peasants and hopefully for more years than just 2024. I would hate if I had to wait another 26 years for the next championship.

[genarro]

After all money is the most important thing, because it's the base. And that's what they were lacking, when they didn't have success. Without the financial fundament, I can have the best culture or the best team structure, but if the best guys work for other teams and my infrastructure is outdated, I have no chance. Who believes that McLaren would currently drive at the front without the budget cap believes in fairy tales in my opinion.

What I am saying is that in my opinion (just a guy who likes F1) Mclaren would eventualy get the budget to compete at the front. The main thing was to get the MTC in order and firing on all cylinders. it would just probably take a lot more time. The cost cap did help not just McLaren but the whole sport.

[-wkst-]

The cost cap was very good for the sport, absolutetely. I mean just listen to the words of Brown in Abu Dhabi, McLaren wasn't financially healthy before the cap was introduced.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/597619 ... nvestment/

Just looked at numbers when they still had Honda money (2017), Mercedes nonetheless spent 100 millions more for the car (PU department not included). No wonder they won so many championships. If you do it right, with the right people, good infrastructure and the most money for development, the probability is high that you win...

[pazazamadaz]

We still haven't had any teasers from the car build.

I am choosing to believe this means they are hiding something big and we are going to get a 1-2 finish in every single race this year.

That must be it!